Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

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Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:02 pm

My white V reg low milage hijet has just been over heating all the way back from Northwich.

Which is a complete arse as its my only method of transport. It was completely fine on the 50 mile drive previous to this, then I stopped for 10 minutes, and as I drove back off again the temp gauge started to miss behave.

Anyway, the symptoms are:-

Temp gauge goes rocketing up to the top, with a bit of luck it comes back down if I keep moving
Any time I stop moving the gauge really climbs back up quick style
The electric fan isn't kicking in (because...)
The bottom water pipe that comes from the thermostat is coldish
Both the pipes on the bottom of the radiator are cold
The radiator is cold
Hot air still blows from the vents
No bubbles in the header tank
Nor has it purged and water into the tank

I'm walking away for tonight as I'm pretty hacked off with a few bits in life at the moment, but tomorrow will be a new day so I'll have a play with it.

The symptoms in my little head at the moment scream at me sticking thermostat.


Last edited by HighlyJetted on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by elfin girl on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:06 pm

booooooooo, hope you fix it ok, mines still not right Sad
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by PFM on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:27 pm

Water pump or belt maybe? A good night's sleep is the best way to fix it, and I'm sure you will.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:36 pm

I am starting to think water pump too. But it wouldn't explain why the heaters still keep hot air running nicely. Belt is present and correct with enough tension to drive everything OK, plus the alternator is running OK too.

The thermostat only controls/restricts the flow of water into the engine from the radiator, while the heaters are connected via a different pipe which by passes the thermostat.

I think I've got a pretty new spare one in the garage :p
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:32 pm

Just thought I'd come back in and give an update of diagnostic efforts so far.

Well I have a tingling right hand after opening a hose or two that I then struggled to put back on as scalding hot water was bellowing out.... a word of warning right there! You cant put your finger over them as its too hot, you can't move to get anything otherwise you'll fill your carpets with coolant. Only way out is a bit painful.

Anyway - Upon lifting the rad cap after it had cooled down I had an air gap under the filler cap. So pressure tested it to find the bleed nipple is leaking pretty bad.

Then I refilled/re-bled the system, and warmed it up with the funnel above the filler point method as outlined by one of you helpful geezers Wink

I get all the air bubbles out no problem what so ever while ticking over, then I feel the radiator and its stone cold even though the temp gauge is at normal temperature.

So I put a hose clamp (for pinching a hose off while doing brake hoses) on the bottom hose, plus clamp the other hose that comes off the thermostat housing - When I squeeze the pipe in my hand (like milking a cow) it turns out I cannot squeeze any water through the thermostat for one reason or another. Pipe is really hard, seems like only water is flowing through the wiggle pin.

I now wait till it cools a little, then I'm getting the thermostat housing off it.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:32 pm

Right I have the thermostat in my hand, tested it in the boiling pan of water, it does open eventually, but it has a proper stiff/sticky initial opening causing it to open way after its rated 84 degrees.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by PFM on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:28 pm

If that's all the problem is, you should soon be ecstatic Very Happy

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:15 pm

Your digging pretty deep with that one mate

Seems to be keeping good temperature now, electric fan kicks in sweet, proper testing will follow as I drive it about.

Also taxed the red one today for more testing to happen.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:06 pm

Done a test drive now and the new thermostat and coolant has made a difference, the running temperature is quite a bit lower than before. It used to sit at exactly the half way point on the gauge, now it sits here:-



This is the old sticking thermostat, it is very tough to open it, but in a pan test it does open up eventually when the water is almost at its natural boiling point, way after its 84 degree design temp.



This is the new nipparts thermostat I have bought from the motor factors, it was about £10, and is again rated at 84 degrees, but as the gauge shows it has made a big difference to the actual running temperature. Part number as seen on the box J1536001



Now I thought I'd post a few pictures to show you my method of doing this, in order to gain access to the thermostat housing I removed the centre plate thing that hold the handbrake, this required undoing the handbrake cable and one of the gear change cables, the seat belt socket bolts and 4 10mm nuts at the front. You also have to remove the plastic interior trim first and the gear knob.



In order to remove the thermostat housing you need to remove that little cable bracket thats in the way attached to the inlet manifold, plus the mount for the hose that blocks you getting to the hidden bolt at the back. To get the thermostat housing bolts off, you will need a nice little 1/4 rachet set, with a couple of extension bars, a wobble joint/JV, and obviously a 10mm socket.

When replacing the thermostat, you must ensure that you put the wiggle pin at the highest point, this allows you to bleed the air trapped behind the thermostat when refilling the coolant. The previous one was not pointing in the correct direction.



The only other major point in all of this is that bleeding a hijet is a bleeding pain in the arse, it takes quite a bit of time, e.g. about 40 minutes of messing and you need to make yourself a few bungs that fit various bits of the system, you need to make a bleeding funnel that fits the filler cap centre hole, and you need to take your time and be very thorough. Then when you think you are done milking the hoses while you warm it up, you need to wait for it too fully cool back down to check your efforts.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:01 pm

2nd test drive all seems ok temp wise.

Before I started it up I found an air gap under the filler cap which I topped up from the header tank, before I go to bed tonight i'll check it again, and then drive it out somewhere tomorrow.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:30 pm

Right great news people!!!

Been to check on the white low milage hijet that had this overheating / sticking thermostat issue:-

There was zero air gap under the cap. I drove it about yesterday so it got warmed up and cooled down 3 or 4 times, than sat over night to fully cool to ambient temperature.

So all this one took to fix was a new thermostat, a new radiator cap, a half gallon of antifreeze coolant, and a load of patients to get it fully bled correctly.

I will take the cap off in a few days time to make sure it is still resolved and post back up to state the full outcome.

Plus it's still running at the slightly lower temperature on the gauge, it hold temperature perfectly, until you hit slow moving traffic where it might make it up to the half way point and then the electric fan kicks in and holds it there. As soon as it get moving again it goes back to the 3/8ths point on the gauge as before.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by rich the mechanic on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:21 pm

Good now take a few deep breaths and put your self in the fridge.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by PFM on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:25 pm

Well done HJ! Keep this up and you'll have a whole new business fixing over-heating hijets.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by Logi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:10 pm

Excellent news, here's hopin. Very Happy
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:40 pm

Thanks for the support guys.

I think the most important bit of doing coolant work on them is to make sure your not pissing in the wind with worn out bits like rad caps, thermostats and hose clips, make sure you don't have any minor leaks anywhere, then make sure you flush out any rad weld or crud.

Then the toughest bit to get right is the refill and bleeding of the system, its a total arse of a job, and it takes a few warm up cool down cycles to get all the air out. It gets trapped in the block because of the lean over engine design, it gets trapped in the thermostat/water pump area, and the only way you'll get it all out is by driving it a bit, then getting the front end up in the air while it cools, re-topping up when cold, then doing it all over again.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by El_Ventu on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:48 pm

That's not a 1.0i CB42, I'm right?

Mine have the thermostat at the opposite side of the engine.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by El_Ventu on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:55 pm

HighlyJetted wrote:Done a test drive now and the new thermostat and coolant has made a difference, the running temperature is quite a bit lower than before. It used to sit at exactly the half way point on the gauge, now it sits here:-



This is the old sticking thermostat, it is very tough to open it, but in a pan test it does open up eventually when the water is almost at its natural boiling point, way after its 84 degree design temp.



This is the new nipparts thermostat I have bought from the motor factors, it was about £10, and is again rated at 84 degrees, but as the gauge shows it has made a big difference to the actual running temperature. Part number as seen on the box J1536001



Now I thought I'd post a few pictures to show you my method of doing this, in order to gain access to the thermostat housing I removed the centre plate thing that hold the handbrake, this required undoing the handbrake cable and one of the gear change cables, the seat belt socket bolts and 4 10mm nuts at the front. You also have to remove the plastic interior trim first and the gear knob.



In order to remove the thermostat housing you need to remove that little cable bracket thats in the way attached to the inlet manifold, plus the mount for the hose that blocks you getting to the hidden bolt at the back. To get the thermostat housing bolts off, you will need a nice little 1/4 rachet set, with a couple of extension bars, a wobble joint/JV, and obviously a 10mm socket.

When replacing the thermostat, you must ensure that you put the wiggle pin at the highest point, this allows you to bleed the air trapped behind the thermostat when refilling the coolant. The previous one was not pointing in the correct direction.



The only other major point in all of this is that bleeding a hijet is a bleeding pain in the arse, it takes quite a bit of time, e.g. about 40 minutes of messing and you need to make yourself a few bungs that fit various bits of the system, you need to make a bleeding funnel that fits the filler cap centre hole, and you need to take your time and be very thorough. Then when you think you are done milking the hoses while you warm it up, you need to wait for it too fully cool back down to check your efforts.
Mine works at lower temperature.
I don't know if because of a different instrument (mine have a Veglia Borletti instrument with speedo in km/h) or a different temperature.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:26 pm

I have a feeling that because the thermostats are made by crap modern companies (probably in asia somewhere) as cheap as possible, they are not tested to make sure the springs and actuator setup respond to the same temperature.

The other thermostat from exacly the same company makes the other van run at the half way mark.

If I could be bothered, and I may actually do this, I would like to put both in a pan together and warm them up to see if the both open at 84 degrees as they should. I would place a £5 bet they are wildly different.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by El_Ventu on Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:08 pm

Mine is a japanparts one, marked for opening at 82°C.
However, it works at about 70-75°, if thermostat opens at 82°.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by Little Black Van on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:05 am

Hey HJ, would it be possible, when you have time, to write up a guide detailing how to bleed the cooling system? By the sounds of it, it is a complete pain in the arse, and a guide could save people an awful lot of faffing. Basically specifics, i.e. the hoses to bung, order to do things etc.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:40 am

Yeah man, no worries, I smashed one out on another thread a while back:-

HighlyJetted wrote:Done the coolant refill this evening, I have tried a new method this time as suggested by 8bit-ash:-

First Bleed the system properly, I know this one will have been said a load of times but I found the best way was to make a tube with a funnel on top with a rubber bung that fitted in the filling hole under the seat. Once you've filled the front rad hole use the tube to make sure the system is fully bled by holding it higher than the matrix with the engine running and coolant filled up to the funnel.

Although I replaced the funnel with a watering can, and the rubber bung with a bit of rubber pipe which fitted very tightly into the filler cap neck snug. I've made up a pretty strong mix of anti-freeze, and I used the pink/red stuff as recommended by Daihatsu.

Firstly I parked the van pointing up hill, with some wooden blocks under the front wheels to help get the front end up high.

I connected a 1.5 metre piece of hosepipe to the end of a watering can, then I slipped this nice rubber pipe over the end of the hose pipe, and rammed that into the filler cap under the passenger seat, put the watering can on its side on top of the open sliding door. Then delegated my missus to making sure the watering can never ran out of coolant mix.

I then opened the rad cap under the bonnet till coolant came out,
then split the pipe T joint under the driver seat, to let a load flow through from the engine (heater on cold + pipe clamp on the lpg feed)
then split the pipe T joint again this time without the pipe clamp on the LPG vapouriser
then I split the pipe T joint again, this time with the clamp on the LPG vapouriser and the heaters on hot
then I pulled the little pipe off the top neck of the radiator
then I clamped the little pipe on the rad while I opened the rad cap again
then I redid the pipe T joint splitting procedure above, doing each pipe one by one with the clamp
The redid the radiator can and side exit pipe as above.

I then took the hose pipe out of the filler cap, and gave the pipes a bit of a squeeze to see if any air came out, there was none.
So I reconnected the hose pipe/watering can and got all the air out of the pipe by putting the watering can on top of the door again, and I pushed a screwdriver down the side of where i'd force the pipe into the filler neck to make sure there was no air in the pipe.
Then I started the engine and let it run for a few minute, squeezing all the hoses. Although I turned it off before the temp gauge came up much not wanting to over heat the fluid without the pressure cap in place.

Then I filled the header tank, topped up the filler cap, put the cap on and started it up.
Waited for the fan to kick in a couple of times, and took it for a quick ride round the block.

I am now waiting on it cooling down to check the results.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by Little Black Van on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:05 pm

Perhaps popping it on the Hijet website would be good. I take it this is for the 1.3? Do you know if it is similar for the 1.0?

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by El_Ventu on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:29 pm

If I'm not wrong the bleeding procedure is the same for 1.0 and 1.3 ones.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by pww on Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:26 pm

Thanks for the info. My 1.3 EFI has exactly the same problem as yours had so tomorrow I will be scratching around for bits of hosepipe, bungs, clamps and anything else the might help the bleeding process.

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by PFM on Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:47 pm

El_Ventu wrote:If I'm not wrong the bleeding procedure is the same for 1.0 and 1.3 ones.
I've never had to go to all that bleeding hassle on my 993's Very Happy

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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:48 pm

Think its the LPG setup which doesn't help matters.

I think once you get most of the air out they sort themselves out with the expansion and contraction.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by elfin girl on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:51 pm

I didn't go through all that with mine, topped up from rad till it came out exps pipe, put cap back on there, then kept topping up from rad while engine running letting water and air out of bleed valve I put in nr t junction going to LPG vaporiser, closed that of, made sure rad was full and put that cap back on, all working fine so far fingers crossed!
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:32 pm

Have you lifted the cap to check for air?

I did on my white one and for about 4 days there was still a bit of air, then it clear itself.
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by elfin girl on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Was a bit of air yesterday morn will have another look tommorow, I did notice the level in the tank was a bit lower so think it replaced most of the air buy pushing it out then sucking back water when it cooled down, I might still have to go through the polava but hopefully it will sort itself out!
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Re: Mr Angry now owns 2 over heating hijets

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:56 pm

When you get air you get foam, and with foam you get premature boiling.... which all leads back to air locking which is the cause of cracked cylinder heads and gasket failure.

If you don't keep an eye on it how do you know if you have cured everything Sad Or am I just a paranoid freak!! I'm going to have to buy another new cap soon as the seal is starting to go a bit crap from all my checking Laughing At just £5 its a small price to pay in my eyes.
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