Engine work incoming...

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Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:11 pm

So, Bod, my trusty steed, is coming off the road to have some much needed work done on his engine. So far I'm looking at tappet adjustment, regrinding valves and replacing stem seals. First thing I need to do though is get someone to drive behind me while I boot it from 5th to 4th and find out if the smoke is white or blue. If blue I assume piston rings, do these need to be replaced or can they be reground/bored? I've never done this kind of work before, so I'm a complete novice to it. On the plus side I do have the workshop manual and several people I know who are experienced mechanics and are willing to help and offer advice, free of charge. One of them will even lend me his spring compressor, fab!

So, to those who know these little beasts inside out, is there anything I should look out for, and best procedure as I work through it? Also, I will most likely be asking questions here when needed, and hopefully this thread could become a little document for others attempting the same thing.

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by xxemaphorr on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:26 pm

which engine is yours?
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by rich the mechanic on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:36 pm

If the rings need replacing as when they are knackered they are knackered then the bores will want at least a hone to remove the shine from them so the oil has something to stick to.
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by HighlyJetted on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:01 pm

Little Black Van wrote:find out if the smoke is white or blue. If blue I assume piston rings

This will not tell you if its rings or valve stem leakage.

Rings tend to smoke all the time, valve stems start by smoking when its first starting up.

If the rings are shot, you tend to get a drop in compression.

And as Rich says, if the rings are shot then the bore will be worn, and not just that the piston skirts too. So it'll really want going a size up etc if your going to make a proper job of it.

I bet if your getting smoky start ups it likely to be a valve stem oil seal issue and or worn valve guide.

If its got a fair few miles on, and the oil is always dark thus its been badly serviced then it could be piston rings etc. Sometimes the scraper rings get gummed up with black oil scank carbon gum crap so they stop scraping.
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:56 am

The oil is always dark, even when I did an oil change. As far as I know, it only smokes when warming up, but I'm taking it out on a run today, will have a look at my exhaust when I come back, and report what I see. So if piston rings, I have to replace them and if needing bored would I need to take this to a specialist? I'd like to only take the head off once, and preferably want it back together and running within a week. Also, if rings are needed, are they dealer only or is there a parts place that does them, preferably for a reasonable price?

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Logi on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:38 am

Rings & a rebore? What's the van worth? TBH if you're going to that bother/expense i'd be considering either a 2nd hand replacement or if doing the work might as well do the Fourtrack/Grand Move engine swap? Very Happy
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:17 pm

Well said Logi. Definitely the route I would go down. It helps obviously if you have a background idea of where the lump came from and can hear and see it run or better still if an unviable mot failure have a run in it.

Either way the lump has got to come out and rebuilding is time consuming and as we all well know Daihatsu parts are rather pricey to understate the matter.

Looking forward to sticking my Grand Move 1600 lump in, in April in one of my Tippers. Got a full schedule of work for March. Will do a step by step photo record similar to HJ and in the meantime see if I can track down a wilder camshaft ( though not to hope-full about that) and injectors that he suggested in his lovely little article for it too.

Would appreciate it though Logi if you could go through this uploading of piccies on the phone with me step by step when you have a little spare time as you kindly offered a little while ago. Many thanks Woody 50.

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Logi on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:21 pm

You'd never understand my accent..... Laughing

I'll start a Piccys For Woody thread and we will get you into the 20th century yet. Razz
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:43 pm

21st century I hope Logi. Still in the 18th century me. Caxton printing press.!!!!

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Logi on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:47 pm

woody50 wrote:21st century I hope Logi..!!!!

Didn't want to push you too far...... Razz
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:08 am

Well if you want to push something -- bring your Rig down and push my damn dead 02 plate Pickup over the cliff for me.
This no spark, no fuel problem is baffling me!! Mad

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:16 am

[url][/url][url=521]521[/url]

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:47 pm

Well, it seems my piston rings are hopefully ok. I've checked the exhaust at the end of a few journeys now and no smoke, only white smoke when it is cold. Is this a positive diagnosis of stem seals or should I do some other checks? As far as compression and power, I don't think it's suffered at all, It's capable of doing most hills in third except the very steepest, and it really doesn't notice whether it's empty or has half a tonne in the back.

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Logi on Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:46 am

White smoke when its cold can be caused by it being winter? All exhausts smoke when the temps low?
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:53 am

No, it happens in the summer as well, and coupled with oil usage, I do think something has gone internally. It also smells very rich when running, which probably means the fuel/air mix isn't right?

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by rich the mechanic on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:25 pm

It is almost a certainty that it is valve related could just be seals (easy job) but maybe wear in the guides (not so easy).
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:25 pm

Having a problem getting the main crank pulley off to get the bottom half of the timing belt cover off. I imagine I need to wedge something through it to stop it spinning?

Never mind, managed to wedge a hefty screwdriver in and with gentle application of a blowtorch, got it off.

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:03 pm

Pretty much all the torque settings in the manual are ranges, what should I do here? Highest? lowest? or somewhere in the middle?

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:09 pm

Ouch, wobbly back piston and a scratch in the surface of the head. Checking out prices of piston rings and a honing tool, then checking the block tomorrow to check it isn't f***ed. On the plus side, once I'm done, she should run sweet. Smile

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:52 pm

When you say wobbly back piston what do you mean?

How does the bore measure?

How does the skirt measure?

How does the ring end gaps compare to the original specification?

Pretty much all the torque settings in the manual are ranges, what should I do here? Highest? lowest? or somewhere in the middle?

Torque settings are always a range.
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:04 pm

Really? I'm sure I've seen specific torques for other vehicles, hence why I'm not sure about this. So, pick a torque in the range and keep it uniform to the whole set, I guess.

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:39 pm

In reality, nothing is exact. All specs tend to have defined tolerances.

Stuff like temperature and humidity throw things into a real world of approximation.

Even your vernier measuring callipers grow and shrink with temperature albeit a tiny amount, torque wrenches swing around wildly from -2 degrees to 30 degrees.
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:04 am

Ok, I see what you mean. I'm going to take a good look at the pistons and bore tomorrow, and take those measurements and compare them to the specifications. The main reason I'm looking though is to check that the bores don't have some horrendous groove in them or something, basically to see whether it is financially worth my while to repair the engine. Time and effort are not a problem at the moment, as I'm finding it an educational experience. I also have an experienced mechanic helping me out, which helps. And all he wants in return is a lift for him and his dogs.

Somewhat pissed off with myself for shearing one of the exhaust manifold bolts though. Sad

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Logi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:57 am

Put a bigger engine in, you know it makes sense ! Twisted Evil
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:07 am

One day Logi, one day... But for now I'll just get the tiddler working. I don't mind not being the fastest thing on the road, just being able to move would be nice. Which I can't at the moment, for obvious reasons. Razz

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Logi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:49 am

Remember, size IS important Wink
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:32 pm

Well, worn scraper rings is the issue, after me and my mechanic looked at them tonight. So yes, rings rather than valves, but I may as well do the valves while I have the engine so deeply dismantled. The shell bearings are scored as well, so going to be replacing them. Can anyone suggest a good place online for getting rings and bearings? I've seen a set of rings on ebay for £55 but I've seen them elsewhere for half the price, but not sure if they will fit my engine. It's a 993cc cb-42 in case anyone doesn't know.

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:55 pm

If shells have excess wear it tends to be crank grind time.

Your spending more on this engine than its worth.

Half jobs of rebuilds always end in tears, I've tried and failed in my youth - A few times!

If your rebuilding, you put your cards on the table and go all the way.

Half way houses never last, and by the time you pay the parts bill they cost a bit anyway.

ANY engine that needs stripping needs at least a new oil pump - the true heart of any wet bearing system.

Bearings and rings etc all need to fit to precise measurements, otherwise they will either rip themselves to bits, or rattle themselves to bits.

Engine building is a science, best kept away from "my mate in a garage" or "have a goer's"

At best you get 10-20k miles then your back to square one.






But if you want a good bodge - clean the scraper rings out in some petrol, clean all the scum out of the sump, clean out the oil pickup, put it back together and keep running it.
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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:33 pm

Well, I see what you say, but I'm continuing anyway. If it fails, it's wasted money and time, but not the end of the world, and I'll have learnt a fair bit. Anyway, trying to get the rocker arm shafts out, but can't work out how to remove the pins that appear to be holding it. Any clues? All the workshop manual says is use the special tool, most likely only available at an extortionate price...

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Re: Engine work incoming...

Post by Little Black Van on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:52 pm

Put most of my engine back together, but got a couple of questions. I have a port on the rocker cover near the back of the engine and a port on the top of the throttle body, the bigger one. I have no idea where these hoses are meant to come from, any clues?

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Re: Engine work incoming...

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