LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

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LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:21 pm

LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Hello All!

I have recently purchased a HiJet 1.3 EFI 16v Dual Fuel .

I already have a problem though:

- The idle is very high when running on LPG (about 2000rpm) and stays like this when warm.
- The idle tends to 'hunt' when on Petrol - up, down, up, down and also stays like this when warm.

Tonight I am going to:

- Check Coolant Level
- Start on fuel firstly rather than LPG and see how it idles
- Add a fuel additive/cleaner

Can anyone give me some advice on what to try next if the above does not solve the issue?!!

Cheers!

Simon

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:24 pm

Yes common fault, caused by one or a number of things. Most commonly caused by:-

Idle speed control valve on the back of the inlet manifold/throttle body is not getting coolant though it.

Which is most commonly caused by it having problems with the coolant system and over heating.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:32 pm

Ok.

So i have topped up coolant under seat. It was very low but not under minimum level. So what next?! Should i also top up radiator coolant?!

Can i ask how to access the back of the inlet manifold?

The van doesnt overheat. Fan kicks on when it temp gauge gets to just under 3/4 when stationery.

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:33 pm

Thanks for your assisstance so far! Feel like i may have been sold a dud!!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:04 pm

Wait for the engine to be cold, take the metal cap off under the passenger seat.

If the water level isn't right upto the collar - not a scrap of air - you've got a fucked one.

Sounds promising though with the fan kick it at 3/4

To get to the idle control valve, you need to lift the carpet in the rear,
undo all the bolts off the engine cover
and its there buried under the inlet manifold.

A good test when you get the cover off is pull the water return pipe off the cylinder head - its a little rubber hose that goes to a hexagon with a branch pipe..

Take the pipe off, bung up the hexagon thing, start it up, water should spew out the pipe if its not blocked.

If you don't get water that's your problem.


P.s. Tell me exactly what colour your coolant is? It should be like half way between iron brew and cherry pop. Has it got any bits floating in it? Is it brown? Get some out of the system, not the header tank. Put it on some white paper to help you see if its got any radweld in it.

The idle control valves often block up because people have put rad weld products in it.


There is also an idle control screw on the throttle body - this may be adjusted too high.

you may have a vacuum leak, spray all the injector rubbers with WD-40 while you've got it hunting to see if it stops it.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Wow! Some nice advice there! Will pop out tomorrow eve to check it out.

Too cold now! I will let you know how it goes!

Thanks Very Happy

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:53 pm

From what I recall after looking at the coolant this evening, the coolant is a reddy orange colour as you describe...previous owner had coolant changed around 2000 miles ago...

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:56 pm

Might have never been bled up properly.

Probably been hunting ever since the coolant was done.

And whoever did it couldn't work it out.

To get to the idle control valve, you need to lift the carpet in the rear,
undo all the bolts off the engine cover
and its there buried under the inlet manifold.

A good test when you get the cover off is pull the water return pipe off the cylinder head - its a little rubber hose that goes to a hexagon with a branch pipe..

Take the pipe off, bung up the hexagon thing, start it up, water should spew out the pipe if its not blocked.

If you don't get water that's your problem.

You'll probably do this and it'll be sweet after you get some coolant running though it.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:04 pm

Quite possibly that could be the problem then, not bleeding the system properly and rather than replacing the lock properly the same 'garage' fitted a shed padlock to the rear door! Cant wait to get that off and replace it with a proper lock!

Tempted to go out now and have a go, but will do it tomorrow night as light is limited and its freezing. Will let you know how I get on!

Thank you!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:21 pm

What exactly is wrong with the boot lock?

They suffer from 3 problems:-

You press the button but it wont open

The lock wont turn

It it doesn't close when you slam it
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:21 pm

All three can be fixed with no parts.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:45 pm

There is no button to press at all.

The boot will close, but someone tried to break into it and the lock mechanism itself is missing completely. only the metal rod to move the lock mechanism at the bottom of the door remains and the latch section.

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:50 pm

So will it still latch?

Is the Metal hoop there for the latch to catch to?
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:54 pm

Yes, the metal hoop is there at the bottom, albeit the plastic part is slightly lose that holds the metal rod in place, but super glue would probably fix that!

One more question, will driving it with an iffy idle damage engine at all? I imagine not but probably best to get water flowing to where it should be?!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:02 pm

Right. No coolant through disconnected pipe when hexagon branch pipe blocked. How long should i leave my finger blocking hole?! Shall i try and wait till water comes out disconnected rubber hose?!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:17 pm

Yeah keep hexagon thing blocked with some rubber hose with a bolt in it - it will get very hot quickly.

Keep the other end (disconnected rubber hose) open.

Make sure the system is well full of water under the cap.

When the water gets hot and expands it HAS to come out of the rubber hose sooner or later, but be warned it'll get very hot.

I clamp it off with a brake hose clamp when I get water coming out of it.

If you don't get water, consider blowing it out with compressed air - with the bung in the hex thing removed - while the system is cool.

My red van did this hunting, and no water in the idle control valve pipework the first time I filled it up. After getting water to flow it was fine.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:59 pm

Wow!! Its fixed! What a superb forum!! Thanks chaps! Running so smooth now! Will get some pics up of her soon!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by PFM on Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:12 pm

Welcome Si, glad you're making progress with your purchase.

HiJetSi wrote:There is no button to press at all.
I'm sure someone on here will have one for you to buy!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:30 pm

Yes. I have always wanted a hijet. Brings a smile to my face every time i drive it!! Got some big plans for it!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:32 pm

Any luck with lock at all HighlyJetted?!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:15 pm

I have just got in from fixing an Alhambra which the driver side door lock had collapse on it.

Had to do it as its a very good friend, and it was causing all his windows to randomly wind down when he walked away from the car!!!

I have not looked, but I know the complete assembly is there, and it works. And I know I have 1 key, but I don't know about 2.........


Right it's late but I want to sort you out, so I've been out and checked - the lock all works great but I do only have one key, and I need to keep a key for the van so I can work the steering lock etc and so I have a key that fits the locks.

So in order to sell the lock I need to get another key cut, and I don't know how much that will cost, so basically I don't want to spend more cutting a key than it's worth me selling the lock obviously!
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:40 am

OK,

In regards to the lock - I plan on visiting two scrap yards at the weekends, where I think they have HiJets present, so if I can get a lock and a key, then I will choose this route to save you any hassle of getting keys cut, but it is more than likely the keys won't be present in the vehicles. So if this is the case, I am willing to pay to get another key cut for the lock. I think this is probably under £10 off the top of my head, so I can pay you upfront to get a key cut and then pay you for the lock at the same time if that would suit, but that would mean going out of your way to get a key cut.

On the other hand you could send me the key with lock I will get one cut, then send the original back, but there is a possibility of it getting lost in post!

I will let you know what I find at the scrapyard at the weekend!

Also the HiJet has started hunting again this morning. I don't think I properly bled it as per your instructions above, so will re do it the correct way until water comes out of disconnected hose! Will re-attempt at weekend when I have some more light and update you! I imagine the air lock travelled back to the throttle body overnight!




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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by Logi on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:35 am

Bleeding a Hijet can take up to a week to get all the little pockets of air out, keep checking it daily. (at the cap, not the header tank)
You may also have a little leak, many Hijet probs are caused by a little leak, usually bunged full of Radweld rather than source and fix it. Check all hoseclips, they rot and lose springyness, replace if ANY doubt.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Thu May 23, 2013 6:11 pm

Have not been on here for a while, but HIJET is still playing up.

Tried disconnecting hose from branch pipe. Blocked it up with another piece of coolant pipe and a screw. Turned engine on for about 30 mins and ran till got up to temp. No coolant through disconnected pipe.

The disconnected pipe leads to this (which is cold when engine is hot and the connected hose running to it is warm. I think this is where my problem is, could it be that this is blocked? Is this the idle speed control vavlve?


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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Thu May 23, 2013 6:12 pm

Here is what I did to try and unblock the blockage or remove the possible air lock. I was expecting water to come out of the pipe my finger is on...but no such luck...


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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu May 23, 2013 7:24 pm

Yeah coolant should flow out of that if the engine is getting warm.

But it is actually a return pipe from the idle control valve.

If the system is gaining pressure as it should as it heats water will escape from anywhere it can.

Basically the waterpump pumps water into the block, then into the head, then out the hex nut, though the idle control valve, out the other pipe, and back into the water pump/thermostat assembly.


So if the system is pretty much full of water and water tight, as the water heats and expands it should come out of that pipe if the idle control valve is not blocked - as it is the only place for the expanding water to escape from.

To clear any blockages, I just blew down the pipe with my compressor, but make sure the rad cap or something is off otherwise the pressure build-up might pop something!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Thu May 23, 2013 7:39 pm

Just to double check that you blew down the open pipe (as pictured) with a compressor? How long did you do this for (in seconds) I will take off radiator cap off or shall I keep the branch pipe open? I suppose that would allow the pressure to escape. Should I do this when cold also?

I don't own a compresser so will need to take it to someone who has, but at least I can tell them what to do to hopefully fix the problem!

Just to add to the mix - I now have two fault codes!!

42 – Coolant temperature sensor – open or shorted
52 – Vehicle speed sensor signal – open or shorted

Could these codes be related??!

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu May 23, 2013 8:21 pm

The coolant temp sensor won't help, but I don't think that's your big issue here. Those ground wires floating about will more than likely solve all of those errors...... maybe - I hope. Warmish confidence level - not hot -not cold!!! MEDIUM! Laughing

Yeah I keep the cap off, because it your getting water flying out of the cap then you know it's clear. It's a nice big hole for pressure to escape from so hopefully no damage would occur.

You could even use an inflated tyre - with a valve/pump connector extended with a bit of bodgery. I've done this when I've needed compressed air in less than ideal situations. Blow the tyre up at a petrol station - ram a good 55-60 psi in it Laughing Bobs your uncle.

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HiJetSi on Thu May 23, 2013 8:36 pm

OK Cheers!

One more thing. How do I reset the fault codes as I have now reconnected the earth?

Just went out and reconnected these floating ground wires...sorry, these questions are very simple I know but I am a bit of a novice and really appreciate the detailed guidance! Smile

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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu May 23, 2013 8:56 pm

I think they just disappear if the fault has gone. But not 100% sure.

If in doubt leave the battery disconnected for a few hours or even over night.
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Re: LPG High Idle and Petrol 'Hunting' Idle on 1.3 EFI 16v HiJet

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