Double checking before head gasket

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Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:59 pm

Hi all, thought it time to start a thread while thanking all for such a great forum. Back in Feb I picked up a 1.3 van 2001 with a known overheat issue. I only paid £300 & after researching on here I was full of die hard optimism that I'd find something simple & have a neat little run around to install my espresso machine in the back ready for summer....
So, radiator flushed, thermostat changed, filler caps replaced still we have an issue. Seems like an airlock in the head & thermostat not open even though I've tested both, the one that came out (bigger higher temp type), & the new one that's a little smaller. Made sure breather was at top, the one that came out was at 3 o'clock!. I may put the old one back in in the correct position & see what happens then. I haven't done a pressure test yet although I've had a good look & listen for steam & leakage during the many times I've had while waiting for it to cool down enough to top up.

Head gasket's got to be done just cos it's been hot so many times, but I'm still not convinced that would be the end of it. i.e. something causing thermostat to stick.

The usual pattern is... After a drain & refill with correct antifreeze, I run it with a block on the pedal to just lift the revs a little otherwise it would take over an hour if it all to bring the temp up for the fan to cut in a couple of times. I switch off & leave & then top up. ( This is the only time I hear the fan cutting in as a rule. It's the only time the temp is reading in a realistic way also. After a cool down & top up. It's ready to go for as long as I want so long as I don't stop, sit in traffic or climb a hill. I've driven the dual carriageway for an hour turned off & hey presto here we go again. The usual is 25 minutes of hilly single track & then it's time to spend the rest of my time limping home in 10 minute intervals. Meanwhile the temp needle is reading between just off cold to halfway between cold & middle until it's time to overheat , then it'll climb fairly briskly to the dreaded H. Most of the time I'm using a cupful to a litre of top up & half of that is on the floor from flushing out bubbles coming from rad side of the under seat filler hole.

I've put a 6 inch length of pipe on the heater bleed cap as I wasn't convinced all the air was out from the engine side of that pipe.
Sometimes the reservoir tank won't return to max level so I got a big syringe to suck it out.

No other vehicle would have had me tinkering so much... I've caught an annoying bug it seems.
I guess I'm ready to stop fannying around & tackle the head gasket but I'd appreciate any comments in case I'm missing something else.

Cheers,

Ray:sunny:


Last edited by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spellcheck)
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:27 pm

There is a hose clip on the back of the cylinder head, its next to part of the flange for the inlet manifold.

I have just dug out this photo for you to show you where it is... but its from a pickup so you can actually see it!!



This hoseclip is always knackard, so replace it. Pretty much every engine I have seen now leaks from here.

Next place to look, is to take the bumper off (about 6 x 10mm bolts and 2 screws), then inspect the bottom of the radiator for staining from leaks.


Also, when your engine is hot, can you squeeze the coolant pipes? Are they flaccid or firm?
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Ok great thanks, I'll have a look now, so I should see it with the rear bulkhead panel off?.
I had the rad off not long ago, looked a bit rusty at the bottom but I've never seen drips or steam from there.
Recently they've been more firm but it varies. The hose from filler cap to engine always firm. the one underneath is either firm & hot or flaccid & cold with the occasional flaccid & hot!

Might as well go & find some clips on a test drive.

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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:01 pm

Recently I tried putting the old filler cap from the rad on to the underseat filler cos I reckoned while filling up the rad i could see the expansion bottle taking in water. The springs on the new filler caps seem pretty flimsy. So swapping the cap stopped the expansion tank filling up while I'm topping up but hasn't helped with any cool running. Seemed like the pipe from cap to engine was under a higher pressure, that's what's made me think the thermostat's not opening.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:14 pm

The whole coolant system i stays at equal pressure, so the top pipe has the same pressure as the bottom, as the inside of the head to the inside of the radiator. It's one big open system.

Minor coolant leaks don't really steam or anything, they tend to pull air inwards when cooling.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:38 pm

HighlyJetted wrote:The whole coolant system i stays at equal pressure, so the top pipe has the same pressure as the bottom, as the inside of the head to the inside of the radiator. It's one big open system.
mmm.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:42 pm

I've just confirmed one of the FRC74 filler caps I'd replaced a couple of months ago has failed. while filling the rad with cap on the underseat filler the expansion tank filled up & overflowed. I put the old heavier duty one back on the the rad & put another on & it's ok for now.
Got any info on how to post a photo?

I see the hose at the back, what about the others there are at least 4 others I can reach , would you change clips on all?
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:49 pm

Just change that one clip, the others at the back do not seem to fail. I think it may be due to the heat of the cylinder head and the water flowing out of that fitting is very very hot. Also the clips gets alot of splash from the road so it corrodes quickly.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:33 pm





Had a go at posting pic links to the 2 different rad caps, if you can see them I'd be interested if anyone is using the cap on the rad as the filler cap. & if so anyone know where to source them.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:33 pm

Arse! it didn't work.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:37 pm

Gonna change the thermostat back over now & replace clip tomorrow & see. Thanks HJ.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by Logi on Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:49 pm





There you go Laughing 
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:16 pm

The "made in england" cap is a first line cap, they are ok but the seals move on them.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:22 pm

Logi wrote:

There you go Laughing 
Dunno how you did that but thanks Laughing 
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:23 pm

HighlyJetted wrote:The "made in england" cap is a first line cap, they are ok but the seals move on them.
t'other one is better I reckon.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:51 pm

I think the original Diahatsu caps are the best but they are old and tiered now.

There is a guy selling brand new genuine daihatsu ones on ebay, limited supply though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIAGGIO-PORTER-Diesel-Radiator-Cap-0-9-GENUINE-1640187Z04000-TAPPO-RADIAT-/350814197262?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item51ae27d60e
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:09 pm

Brilliant, do you reckon these were used on both rad & filler cap originally?
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by Logi on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:49 pm

raydreadz wrote:
Logi wrote:

There you go Laughing 
Dunno how you did that but thanks Laughing 
What can I say, if I was any better at it they would call me Woody........lol! 
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:00 pm

Look, our members are evolving...

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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by elfin girl on Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:51 pm

im pretty sure that pipe you pointed. out hj is one of the ones that was totally blocked on mine, bone dry inside! so worth checking there are no blockages while your at it
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:36 pm

daisydon wrote:im pretty sure that pipe you pointed. out hj is one of the ones that was totally blocked on mine, bone dry inside! so worth checking there are no blockages while your at it
Thanks Daisy, I checked it to be sure, a little sticky gunge on the outlet pipe but the hose was clear. I think it's had k-seal in the past... bronze glittery stuff?
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:41 pm

Took it for a run, admittedly with mostly water in. overheated after 20mins. lower pipe squishy & cold. no heater.... As the big man says "enough for today".
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:09 pm

Logi wrote:
raydreadz wrote:
Logi wrote:

There you go Laughing 
Dunno how you did that but thanks Laughing 
What can I say, if I was any better at it they would call me Woody........lol! 
Sarcastic old / young Git !! lol! 

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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:23 pm

raydreadz wrote:Took it for a run, admittedly with mostly water in. overheated after 20mins. lower pipe squishy & cold. no heater.... As the big man says "enough for today".
Your not holding pressure for one reason or another.

If its already had K seal or some other radweld sort of product in it, it's definitely been over heated many time.

Get the head off it and sort everything properly.

It isn't expensive to do if you do the labour yourself - if you can do a good job of it that is.
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by raydreadz on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:44 pm

Yep it's time. Reckon you could run through the basic steps when you get a mo? I know that's a big ask:scratch: 
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:46 pm

Yeah sure, but not now as I've had a couple of pints! drunken
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:46 pm

And I very rarely drink so I'm quite damn tipsy!!
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Re: Double checking before head gasket

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:54 pm

Your spelling and punctuation are good so you can't be too merry HJ.drunken Sleep 

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