1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

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1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:08 pm

I have just bought a 2003 1.3 Hijet Petrol/Gas. I haven't run it on gas yet because I want to get it commissioned first to check its safe.
The problem I have is that until its warmed up and the temp gauge is resting at three quarters, the engine does not idle well. It stall when pulling up to lights or when slowing down quickly.
A garage told me this was because it has been running on gas a lot before and the ecu has set itself for gas, does anyone know if this is a common problem.
I am having the gas system checked over tomorrow so will see what happens with that.
Also does anyone know of any good daihatsu garages in the bristol area?
Cheers
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by neil54 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:23 pm

I believe the timing has to be adjusted for LPG. This is comment from a Talbot EXpress website.

"LPG conversions are available for Petrol Variants from with new kits from £550 up to £1500 for professionally fitted. From personal experience and other's comments the engines run a lot smoother on LPG, however they can give approximately 10% less power unless tuned properly (so advance the timing considerably) . "

Hope this helps

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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by rich the mechanic on Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:42 pm

Sounds like the engine temp sensor is at fault. Does the engine managment light work on the dash? and as far as I know the gas has a seperate ECU but I have only ever driven one LPG car and never worked on one other than a compression test.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by FrontBackSide2Side on Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:20 am

Yes i would say it sounds like something to do with the cooling system too as the temp gauge should be at half on the gauge when warm not three quarters. Cooling problems are very common with these as you'll find out.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:10 am

Thanks for the quick replies, as a complete newbie to these little vans where should I be topping up the coolant, in the cap under the passenger seat or in the other cap to the right if the steering wheel. I am not getting any engine warning light, I guess the bulb could have gone, is there a quick way to check this?
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by melboy on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:58 am

no the cap to the right of steering wheel is for brake fluid.
put your coolant in the one under passenger seat.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by FrontBackSide2Side on Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:11 am

When you turn your ignition on (engine not running) your dashboard lights, including the engine light should light up. Obviously when the engine starts it should go out.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:40 pm

Engine light doesn't come on at all when key in ignition, so I imagine the bulbs gone or the seller took it out. Do I have to remove the whole dash to check?
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by FrontBackSide2Side on Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:40 pm

Mine was removed when i bought mine. You just have to take the clocks out, not the whole dash. It is a simple job when you start doing it Smile I can't remember how to do it step by step off the top of my head but i'm sure it was just a few screws holding it in. If you search for HighlyJetted's video about reading fault codes on these vans you will see the position of the engine light on the clocks.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:49 pm

Quick update....

Took the van into an autogas service centre today, had the gas system checked over. Everything was fine except some washers and a boot needed replacing.
On gas the van idles loads better.
Funny thing was when i put a full tank of fuel in it also seems to idle better?

Still have some concerns,

Exhaust need replacing, going to see infinity exhausts in bristol on friday, apparently they will make a custom one for a fraction of the price of an official part.

Van does seem to idle a bit high, but when i put my foot under the accelerator pedal and lift it up, the revs drop to a more reasonable level. Is this easy to adjust?

Temp gauge does sit at about two thirds, fan kicks in but only for 7-8 second bursts which does not affect temp.

Fuel gauge is dodgy, after I filled up today the fuel light stayed on and needle gradually rose to half on the gauge over the course of 40 mins.

When I looked in the coolant tank, the coolant was not full right to the brim. Is this a problem, or do I need to bleed the system?

Also Blower blows hot air from all vents except the ones which point towards driver.

Sorry to throw so many questions out in one post, hope this is okay, still pretty new to forums. If anyone one has any ideas, advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by PFM on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:00 pm

jamesgates1000 wrote:Exhaust need replacing, going to see infinity exhausts in bristol on friday, apparently they will make a custom one for a fraction of the price of an official part. GREAT

Van does seem to idle a bit high, but when i put my foot under the accelerator pedal and lift it up, the revs drop to a more reasonable level. Is this easy to adjust? Maybe lube the pivot - or has a spring broken?

Temp gauge does sit at about two thirds, fan kicks in but only for 7-8 second bursts which does not affect temp. Sounds OK

Fuel gauge is dodgy, after I filled up today the fuel light stayed on and needle gradually rose to half on the gauge over the course of 40 mins. Prob the sender - start checking your mileage in case it's slow to drop

When I looked in the coolant tank, the coolant was not full right to the brim. Is this a problem, or do I need to bleed the system? It's only supposed to be up to the 'MAX' level

Also Blower blows hot air from all vents except the ones which point towards driver. RTFM - that's a design feature to keep the driver awake

Sorry to throw so many questions out in one post, hope this is okay, still pretty new to forums. If anyone one has any ideas, advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:59 pm

I'm actually on holiday getting some sunshine, but start with your non working engine warning light!
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:45 am

Thanks for the advice guys, have ordered myself a cheap obd2 reader and am going to attempt to check the bulb this evening.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:01 pm

Go the dash off, as I thought the engine warning bulb has been removed. Replaced it with the parking bulb. Warning light works now, but the van is still stalling and the light isnt coming on while driving about?
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:02 pm

Make sure you take it for a proper drive, do a good few miles keeping it over 50mph.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:04 am

Took my van over to Jerry at www.usedhijetparts.co.uk, to get a new tyre and see if they had an exhaust.
Jerry was great he had an exhaust and fitted it there and then, even though the mounting bolt were well rusted. Had the spare fitted underneath, an air filter change, a new piece of window trim, a battery mounting bracket and battery cover too. All for an amazing price, I highly recommend usedhijetparts.
I then drove 70 miles down to Portland in Dorset with no stalling problems, need to try again today but it seems to have fixed the problems.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:12 pm

Long steady runs tend to be OK most of the time. It's when you do stop start low speed stuff that brings the problems on.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 pm

p.s. It has nothing to do with it running on gas alot.

And the timing is pre set for petrol, then when you hit the button for gas, the LPG ecu modifies the signal from the cam sensor to bodge the timing.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:13 pm

Thanks for the info. As you say it is fine on long journeys once up to temp. 
But at the beginning of the day and when just starting up the engine still stalls if I slow down too quickly, not too bad if I go down through the gears well ahead of any lights etc.
I got hold of an OBD2 reader and have got a Diagnostic failure code: P0172
I found this information on the forum, and was just wondering where the best place to start would be?

(Failure detected:Fuel trim system too rich (lean air-fuel ratio failure, bank 1)
Affected area
- Air intake (pipe loosened)
- Fuel duct pressure
- Injector locking or leakage
- Interrupted or short-circuited wire in the oxygen sensor circuit.
- Oxygen sensor
- Manifold absolute pressure sensor
- Engine coolant temperature sensor
- Gas leak in the exhaust system
- Vacuum switching valve for vapour bleeding
- Engine electronic control unit)

I am going to work through these one by one until I find the problem. Starting with the how to test your suspected faulty sensors post.
When testing the sensors do I unplug them and put the wires in the back of the sensor, and with the coolant temp test how do I know the temp of the engine to see if I an getting the correct ohms?
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:56 pm

I would suggest the P0172 is a code that is being caused with your poor idle.

I would look at the idle control valve which is a bitch to get too, it is underneath the throttle body.

This is not a straight forward fault, it is something a bit in the grey area.

But I would always ensure you are not working with a collection of faults, for example if your temperature sensor is not reading the coolant temperature correctly then it may run too lean, also if the problem lies within the coolant system then it may cause your idle control valve to not operate correctly.

Because I cannot see the vehicle it is hard to give you a precise answer, but 9 out of 10 hijets I look at have a collection of faults, usually caused by previous botch work. For example many of them have the cam belt fitted a tooth out, which in turn causes them to idle poorly when cold - and normally when I fix them the owner is amazed by the increase in power and fuel saving!

Make sure you resolve all of the rats nest of issues, which tend to be caused by the coolant system, and work undertaken when previously failing to fix the coolant system.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:48 am

Hi again,
This is where I am at now, while I was having the windscreen and petrol tank replaced I had the coolant system bled. There was a load of air in there.
Runs a little cooler now, with the needle resting just on top of the little thermometer on the gauge. When sat at lights it starts to creep up but the fan kicks in, it hasn't got close to the line yet.
However I am still getting the stalling until it has warmed up. On either gas or petrol it will start first time, then when I stop at the first junction it will cut out and it won't start until it left for a minute. Next time it stalls it is easier to start, my getting better until it has reached temp.
I am still getting the P0172 code, but now with the additional codes...

P0130 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0133 02 sensor circuit slow response bank 1 sensor 1

I have reset these but they come back, I read this is a lambda sensor fault. Is there anyway I can check the sensor or shall I just replace it.
Thanjs
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:19 am

Alter the idle control allen key.

It it on top of the throttle body, down a hole.

To get proper access to them, I often drill a little hole on the metal behind the seat - about 2cm inwards from the edge of the opening.

Sounds like it might need turning anti clockwise about 2 turns.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:56 am

Thanks, I'll try that later when I finish work.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:52 pm

Just went out to take the cover off the engine and checked under the pressure cap under passenger seat. There is no liquid in there at all. Also there are gold coloured fleks in the pipe and around the seal.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:49 pm



Having a bit of trouble locating idle control valve, is it on this picture??
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:07 pm

jamesgates1000 wrote:Just went out to take the cover off the engine and checked  under the pressure cap under passenger seat. There is no liquid in there at all. Also there are gold coloured fleks in the pipe and around the seal.

That "gold" is k-seal or radweld or some other coolant fix all product.

I would say from your descriptions you have typical Hijet coolant system issues.

I also suspect that someone has been messing with it already.

The idle screw is on the other side of the throttle body - just on the other side of that black electric sensor you can see in the picture.

It is an allen key head, that is down an 8mm hole.


But I would say you are pissing in the wind. You need to resolve the coolant system issues, which from personal repairing experience 4 out of 5 need the head gasket doing along with fixing the original faults.
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:54 pm

Cheers, I found the idle control valve, gave it two turns like you suggested but it still stalls while cold.
The van overheated for the first time the other day, been trying not to drive it until I have it sorted but some days can't face riding my bike.
I added loads more water in the expansion cap under passenger seat and since then the needle has been hovering just over halfway as usual. Fan kicks in etc.
When depressing the pedal with expansion cap off I am getting bubbles and after driving the expansion tank becomes very full, although it subsides back to normal level when cold.
When I was looking today I found there was coolant right up to the top of that pipe(not a scrap of air). So not sure what that means.
That cap has a split in the rubber seal, so I have ordered two of the firstline caps to replace them both.
Some of the clips are corroded, some are the old spring clip type and some of the metal pipe work is corroded slightly around the joins.

Not had time to have a proper look because of overtime at work, but now have time I'm going to...
replace the caps and all jubilee clips, cleaning up corrosion on metal tubing and check rubber hoses for splits etc. Then check idle control valve for blockages and check sensors with your guide(do I have to unplug them and put multimeter probes onto the actual sensor terminals or push them into the holes where the wires go on the back of the plugs?)
Thinking about draining contaminated coolant from the system, (if I do this can I attach garden hose to the system to clear out any accumulated gunk?) pressure test to make sure there are no leaks and then refill and bleed with your watering can method.
Other than the bubbling there are no signs of a head gasket failure, no white smoke or water from exhaust and no coolant in the oil. So fingers crossed that isn't an issue.
Is there anything else that I can replace or check that could be an issue such as the thermostat?

Thanks for all the advice so far, I haven't had any experience with engines and car systems before, hence the long posts and silly questions! But am slowly learning what all the bits and pieces do by reading other posts in the forum.  Smile 
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:54 pm

jamesgates1000 wrote:no white smoke or water from exhaust and no coolant in the oil

I hear this week in week out about all cars.... thing is those symptoms got left behind in the 70's and 80's really.

To flush it you have to take the thermostat out, otherwise you can't hose pipe water through the engine.

But yes, drop the "coolant" out of it, then flush it out with a hose pipe by remove the top big rubber hoses under the passenger seat and shove your hose pipe down them all one by one - do it a few times.

The 1 thing (well actually 2) that make the biggest difference with the success rate of fixing Hijet overheating problems is firstly to pressure test the system with air. And secondly to bleed all of the air out of the system when refilling with fresh coolant.

To pressure test it you need an old tyre/innertube valve and a tyre inflater or air supply - you only fill it to about 15 psi with air.





And to bleed it up properly you need to make yourself a "header tank" which allows you to fill the system and remove various pipes to get the air out of it. This is a very old video, but it give you the jist of the method!



That very watering can in the video has now been used on about 15 different Hijets  Wink 
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by jamesgates1000 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:43 pm

Hi thanks for the links,
I now have hose clips, new expansion caps and all hoses necessary to do the work. Found an old water cooler bottle which is 15l, which i will use as the header tank as i am doing it on my own.
A couple of questions before I start...

When I pressure test the system will I be able to tell if the head gasket has gone?

If not is there another way of finding out besides getting a test kit?
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Re: 1.3 Hijet doesn't idle well until warmed up

Post by HighlyJetted on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:46 pm

Even a test kit doesn't work on a Hijet.

I have not found a way to test for head gasket failure on a Hijet.

All I do it sort the rest of the system out, then fill them properly with coolant. Drive them gently a few times letting them fully cool down. Then I draw a line on the header tank marking the water level. After that I take them for the trashing of their life!!! I rag them to death for 30 miles up and down the hills, and if the coolant level is now overflowing the header tank then the head gasket needs doing.
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