Engine swops

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Engine swops

Post by SmellyEnglish on Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:49 pm

Hey guys my 1ltr is giving me grief again so im thinking about a replacement lump. After researching a bit Ive seen bike powered, a v6 in a bedford and a few other engines being used. What im thinking about is a MX5 or a MR2 engine anyone ever tried these lumps before? The MR2 would be insane especially the 200bhp turbo'd one !! Im not to worried if i have to chop the engine bay about to fit one in, just wanted to know if anything has been attempted like this before. Or if you guys know of a superb engine that I should use. Idealy Id be after a crashed spares or repairs whole car and just steal everything off it rather that adapting gearboxes and all that.

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Re: Engine swops

Post by leopard_pagan on Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:54 pm

if you do a swap, keep us informed. :0)
i have seen footage on U Tube of vans with "non-standard engines" lol but not seen how its been done. i think most of us have standard vans bar the Tuk-tuk with a hijet lump in it.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by difflock123 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:21 pm

There was a 2.0L Mondeo engine fitted into a Hijet on ebay (was linked on this forum).

If you are willing to cut the rear floor, weld different engine/gearbox mounts, and perhaps a tougher rear axle, then its very possible....

Its more of a case of how much work do you want...

Definitely keep us posted though Very Happy

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Re: Engine swops

Post by rich the mechanic on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:42 pm



1965 DOHC 260 c.i. dohc V-8 which developed 425 h.p Ford that powered Lotus and Jimmy Clark to victory at the Brickyard .

If someone happens to find one of these laying about spare I'll fit into our jet.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:11 pm

As the propshaft is already very short, there is not that much room to go rearwards, although you could push the axle back a bit, maybe extend the ladder chassis if its a pickup.

The main concern with Hijet engine swaps is height.

The Hijet doesn't have a lean over engine installation just for fun - there is not a lot of height to play with under your bum and above the road. And width is somewhat fixed due to your already on the inner arches and chassis either side. They made hijets compact, and there isn't any wasted space down there.

Bike engines are probably the most fitting to the space requirement - biggest mountain to climb is the reverse gear problem. If you come up with a bomb proof usable reverse let me know! I've spent hours looking at cost effective hardy solutions without a solid conclusion yet. Sad

The MR2 is a transverse engine setup, so maybe you could put the whole lot in the boot. Otherwise you'll need a RWD gearbox from something like an AE86 or something.. i'm not a big expert in this Toyota hardware. But then you'll have the height issue again, so maybe lean the engine over:- fabricate yourself new sump, oil pickup, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold, engine mounts..... etc etc

MX5 is at least all RWD, but again, the height will be a problem, so you'll probably have to lean it over, so a custom sump, pickup, manifolds, mounts etc.

I'd personally go with a 1.3 hijet engine, but hybrid it with a 1.6 sportrak engine - no fabrication required, and you could steal all the wiring/ecu off a 1.3 hijet. Nice easy cheap conversion. Read my little article on my site for more information here http://www.daihatsuhijet.co.uk/engine-conversion-1-6-1600-sportrak-grand-move-terios-daihatsu-hijet/ It's all bolt together stuff, and you should have change left over from a couple of hundred quid if you play your cards carefully.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by streetboy on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:40 pm

Hiya, so would a 97 Sportrak elx i fit the bill?

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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:48 pm

Yeah sure would, but keep in mind you will need loads of bits of a 1.3 hijet to make it fit.

By the time you bought all the bits off the 1.3 hijet separately, you might as well buy a whole van. And then you definitely have what you need.

In all honesty, if I was a 993cc owner, I would just sell the 993cc hijet, buy a 1.3 and go from there. It would be loads more time and cost effective.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by streetboy on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:05 pm

Guess it comes down to finding a 1.3 hijet scrapper/engine, and a 1.6 engine

Done a fair few engine tinkering mods over the years and quizzical as to what the difference would be in power etc. Be interested to know what diff would fit and from what to make it more user friendly. I know someone has changed it following an engine mod.

Pie in the sky right now but deffo something to entertain in the future. Smile

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Re: Engine swops

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:01 pm

The trouble with putting these exotic engines in modern vehicles is always the electronics side of things. I have done a few engine swops in my time --mostly Fords and Ford engine swaps --- though I did put a V6 in a LWB Landrover using a Steve Parker conversion kit.

The thing that made my swaps more easily done was the fact that the ignition system had points which made it much more simple and of course carburation rather than electronically controlled injection.


You would need a real whizz-kid with electronics to concoct a wiring loom and ECU etc.

One engine that would be worth considering is the Alfa Romeo flat four engine - being a Boxer engine there shouldnt be issues with height and would unquestionably have a lower centre of gravity than the Hi-Jet lump -- The largest one is 1700cc but fuel injected but the earlier 1500s were twin twinchoke downdraft Webers so carbs could be swopped over and also distributor with points.

Then you are down to making an adaptor plate to go between the engine and gearbox --then you have spigot shaft length and diameter to consider and next the flywheel has to be modded to accept Hi-Jet clutch and ring gear-- engine mountings, exhaust system -too many problems to count.

So is any engine swop like that worth it ? Not in my book. Get a 1300 Hi-Jet and do what HJ advocates -- STICK A 1600 LUMP IN IT . Theres enough work doing that to keep a person out of mischief for a month or two in your spare time.

Then with your 1600 lump in place make sure you put a 1 litre or 993 badge on the tailgate ---- Absolutely guaranteed to really pee people off when they think they have been burnt off by a Hair Dryer sized engine in a van.

Go on try it son-- I dare you !!!

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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:19 pm

woody50 wrote:There's enough work doing that to keep a person out of mischief for a month or two in your spare time.

I say you could do it in an easy weekend. One long day if you got up early, worked hard and did a late night. Rope in a mate to help ease the heavy graft bits.

Efi conversions are pretty simple really, but you have to have a bit of experience with efi systems and not scared of wires.

Wiring conversions are much easier than mechanical conversion, least there's no machining, welding, cutting, serious tooling and precision. Any workshop that is going to be doing custom engine transplants need at least £6k worth of tools at hand. Lifting wires isn't exactly hard graft Laughing

All you need are wire cutters, insulation tape, soldering iron, multimeter and bit of know how and determination to do an EFI conversion. About £30 worth of tools.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:16 am

Just re-read my item in light of your comment about doing it in a weekend Ooops ! I put months instead of days. Was past my 7-30 bedtime when I wrote it. Mad

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Re: Engine swops

Post by xxemaphorr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:29 pm

so who on here has done an engine swap on a hijet?

I am currently considering two options; a 1.6 engine as has been suggested on here

or

Using parts from a charade or terios 1.3 hce engine; there has to be a reason that the hijet specs 65bhp and the charade/terios are around 90bhp.

Anyone have experience with either of these options?
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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Mine in my garage has the 1.6 engine, that's how I made this web page here http://www.daihatsuhijet.co.uk/engine-conversion-1-6-1600-sportrak-grand-move-terios-daihatsu-hijet/

The hijet engine has much longer runners on the inlet manifold for a starters, this will lower the peak torque rpm point thus the peak horse power will be considerably lower.

Then the hijet has the hotdog/log style exhaust manifold which will seriously lower the peak torque point.

As the Hijet is a van, with a large maximum working load, Daihatsu did the right thing by designing its engine to have all the torque in the middle and low down thus the manifolds being the way they are. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to drive the loaded van up hills or from standing starts without reving the tits off it.

If you shorten a manifolds runners you move the torque band up the rev range. If you make a 4-2-1 or 4-1 exhaust manifold with long runners, again you shift the torque to a higher rev range.

So the bits that make the Charade/Terios more peaky cannot be fitted to the Hijet because they simply won't fit under the seats and in the engine compartment due to the lean over installation.

Hijet
Bhp @ rpm: 64/4800
Lb/ft @ rpm: 73/2800

Charade
Bhp @ rpm: 90/6500
Lb/ft @ rpm: 74/5500

And of course, to make the more highly strung engines air flow characteristics work, in the charade the ECU will be tuned very differently. Far more ignition advance, a much leaner mid range and a richer top range.

Unfortunately in today's ignorant max power top gear world, engines get "valued" on peak horse power. Having loads of power just before the redline doesn't really make a vehicle any use in 99% of driving. It might make it quick down a 1/4 mile strip where your going to keep it singing in every gear from the start.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by xxemaphorr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:38 pm

thats exactly the sort of answer I was looking for! Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail. I will have a good look at that site of yours after this reply.

What about internals? Bore, cam, flywheel, any other potential?
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Re: Engine swops

Post by xxemaphorr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:45 pm

suffice to say I am mightily impressed.

what does it drive like?
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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:14 pm

Don't know, not driven it yet!!!!!!!!! Laughing Laughing

But this summer it should be out and MOT'd. I need my garage back. Currently altering the braking system quite heavily, and moving the fuel tank. But still lots more to do, and not enough money, time or motivation.

But to talk H series engines.....

All the 1.3 1.5 1.6 have the same bore. Just more stroke to increase the CC's

As with these things, longer stroke engines are less willing to make lots of power / rev hard than shorter stroke. That's why sports bike engines have very short strokes. Longer rods help over come this, but that means making the block taller.... Go research "Rod ratio" if you want more info.

Anyway back to topic, the 1.3 piston has taller crowns compared to the 1.5/1.6 pistons. You can put the 1.3 pistons onto the 1.6 rods which would definatly help it make more power. So some numbers to the theoretical compression ratios:-

HC 1.3 makes 9.5:1
HD 1.6 makes 9.5:1
But put the 1.3 pistons in a 1.6 and you get a stunning 11.06:1 that will help you make a fair bit more power.

The 1.3 hijet cam is a bit bigger by my measurements to the sportrak cam.... but I don't have a dial gauge etc to measure them properly. Get a Detomaso or charade gti cam if you can find one as they are the most aggressive - but rare - but if you want one you can find one, ask Jim on the Daihard BBS forum.

You can only use the Hijet flywheel as the others fit the clutch a bit differently, and the hijet flywheel is much lighter than the sportrak one.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by xxemaphorr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:36 pm

*adopts thoughtful pose
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Re: Engine swops

Post by streetboy on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:03 pm

Hmmm, with all that extra grunt how do you stand with the diff? are there any upgrades in ratios?

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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:17 pm

A Mig welder Laughing



It's been read that you can use a ford axle of some kind. There was one on ebay that sold with a ford axle on it. Rich recons they will fit, and being a sad ford perv he'll know much more about them. F***ing F**ds
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Re: Engine swops

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:24 pm

Whilst on this engine swop subject. I am planning to take the 1600 lump out of the Grand Move I recently bought and start pulling the lump to bits and a 1300 one for all the Hi-Jet bits. Thanks ever so much for that article you have done on the 1600 swop HJ.

Can you recommend a website to get an engine gasket set from please ? Partco and Southern Exhaust Factors down here on the Island are talking telephone numbers for a gasket set. Crooks !!

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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:29 pm

Are they taking the piss?!

I get these full head gasket sets off this ebay seller for £45

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APPLAUSE-CHARADE-HIJET-TERIOS-CHARADE-HEAD-GASKET-SET-/320697867748?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aab151de4&_uhb=1

Turn up quick, good gaskets, fit great. What more do you want?
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Re: Engine swops

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:31 pm

Beauty of using an Anglia rear axle though HJ is that the English axle will take a Limited Slip Diff. I had a steel one in my Escort van and makes sliding the backend around great fun or easy-peasy as Logi would say. bounce

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Re: Engine swops

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:33 pm

Thank you very much HJ. Indebted to you yet again.

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Re: Engine swops

Post by xxemaphorr on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:49 pm

so what parts are you using from what then woody?
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Re: Engine swops

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 am

There are a few parameters to consider putting Angle box axle in. Spring mountings carriers would have have to be ground off and re-welded and the diff nose angle would have to be aligned correctly with the prop -- as HJ said in another blog that the prop is very short and may have to be shortened too as I'm not sure how much longer the Salisbury diff is.

Axle flange modded to mate with Hi-Jet flange. Anglia drum brakes arent much cop -- 1200 super are bigger but the best ones to use are the large drums and backplates from a Corsair 2000E. Mk2 Escort van brakes would be better but I seem to recall that the backplate bolt pattern is slightly different to Anglebox. Another problem would be handbrake cable. Last of all is the PCD issue again 108mm as opposed to 110 on Hi-Jet.

If you were serious about putting a Ford axle in I will do some research in my notes of years ago when I was obsessed with Fords and modding them.

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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:23 am

I'd keep the hijet diff till it pops
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Re: Engine swops

Post by streetboy on Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:58 pm

I'd second that, its a lot of work otherwise. I guess its all about how you drive it, foot to the floor and wheel spinning may well break something.
Regards diff ratios for more comfy motorway driving, would upping the wheel size to 13/14" make a big difference?

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Re: Engine swops

Post by xxemaphorr on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:23 pm

i found that cruising was a little easier but there were obvious inaccuracies in the speedo
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Re: Engine swops

Post by rich the mechanic on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:48 pm

xxemaphorr wrote:i found that cruising was a little easier but there were obvious inaccuracies in the speedo

really did it read right in the first place mine is so fast (the speedo not the van) that even going through speed cameras a little over is still well safe compared to a gps speedo.

If you do go for an escort back axle the conversion to disc rear is really easy pair of solid discs from a pug 106 pair of rear calipers off almost anything although sierras offer the easiest cable swap and a little fabrication and welding and off you go although you may have to restrict the fluid flow unless you want a rear biased brake setup, there is a fair bit of meat on the input flange for a little redrilling and by eye the diff size is similar both axles are held to the leafs by U bolts cna I can't remember what the damper brackets are like but as the jets are one in front one on the rear a little fabrication there and if you are goiunt to all that effort then getting the front hubs turned down and a set of wobble nuts will give you a greater range of wheels so you could go bigger in order to improve the front brakes to slow the beast down with all the extra power it's making.
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Re: Engine swops

Post by HighlyJetted on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:56 pm

streetboy wrote:I'd second that, its a lot of work otherwise. I guess its all about how you drive it, foot to the floor and wheel spinning may well break something.
Regards diff ratios for more comfy motorway driving, would upping the wheel size to 13/14" make a big difference?

Wheel size isn't the issue, bigger total rolling radius is. And trying to get bigger tyres under the hijet arches is more than a bolt on job.

The rears could be ok another 50mm diameter. The front on the other hand will want to shred themselves against the corner of the doors when the van leans over a little while cornering.
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