Bleeding brakes

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Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:52 pm

Hi everybody,
I have replaced the brake shoes and cylendars on the rear wheels of my piaggio porter van.

Wondering if a kind person could give me a quick step by step on how to bleed the brakes properly.

Thanks everyone!

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Swarfing on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:40 pm


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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Logi on Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:53 am

Is the load sensing valve operating properly? Ie, not seized?
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:10 am

Hijet brakes are a bitch to bleed.

Ensure the LSPV is in the open position:- e.g. unbolt the arm from the axle and cable tie the arm in the "up" position so it is pushing against the valve.

work your way round - do the fronts, then do the LSPV from all the flare nuts, then the drivers rear slave cylinder from the flare nuts, then the rear passener from the bleed nipple.

Expect problems!

Also, if some idiot has replaced the rear wheel cylinders because it has failed the MOT on a lack of rear brake effort, then you will never bleed them up. And if you do, it will not pass the MOT any better than the last failure Smile

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:07 pm

Where is the lsvp located?

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:08 pm

Rear axel?

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:13 pm

Thanks so much everybody!!

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:39 pm

I found it! Not seized! You guys are a huge help!!

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:11 pm

Hmm... Might actually be seized. How do you de with this?

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Lex_Michdebus on Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:48 pm

I'm going to borrow this thread, because I tried to bleed my brakes today and didn't get a drop to bleed from the back. Even without the nipple screwed in... The wheels were off the floor, so I'm guessing the valve was my problem?

So if I'm understanding this correctly, I'm not starting from the back nipple, but it ends there? Bleeding from the flare nuts? Seriously? That is indeed a bitch...
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:00 pm

The valve is the problem.
Soak it in penetrating lube.
Bleed the fronts.
Strap the lever out of the way on the load sensing valve (LSPV)
Take off the rubber boot.
Grab the little piston and work it in and out until it moves.
It only moves a few mm and this will seem impossible at first.
Leave the pliars attached while bleeding from the end point.
You might need to pull on/ jiggle the pliars while bleeding.
It will be very slow at first.
Two people needed for this job.
Good luck.

We also had a clear tube in the nipples so we could 100% see the air was all gone.

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:03 pm

We had it jacked up with the wheels off.
We didn't need to bleed from the flare nuts... It would have been impossible as they were rounded to shit!

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Megarett on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:07 pm

Just to clarify:

Megarett wrote:The valve is the problem.
Soak it in penetrating lube. Soak everything in lube... Soak it for days if you have to.
Bleed the fronts.
Strap the lever out of the way on the load sensing valve (LSPV)
Take off the rubber boot on the LSPV
Grab the little pistoN in the LSPV and work it in and out until it moves.
It only moves a few mm and this will seem impossible at first.
Leave the pliars attached to the LSPV piston while bleeding from the end point.
You might need to pull on/ jiggle the pliars while bleeding.
It will be very slow at first.
Two people needed for this job.
Good luck.

We also had a clear tube in the nipples so we could 100% see the air was all gone.

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:18 pm

Hey guys, my brakes failed on my HiJet Van 993cc 1994.

Yesterday I came home and the brake pressure was decreasing. Had to pump at every traffic light. When reaching home there was no braking at all. The retainer next to the steering wheel is still full.

To tell the whole story: one year ago i was loosing some break fluid. I had to refill the the little retainer a couple of times. Maybe 400ml all in all. Then it stopped and was fine for couple of month.

Today after failing completely I found the rear left (EU drivers side Smile)) cylinder was leaking. Fresh looking  dot4 coming out (i guess thats where all the dot4 went when i was refilling month ago)
When I press the pedal nothing hapens. No pressure and It wont push out more brake fluid from the broken cylinder

Now I want to ask you for advice on fixing it.
So I have to buy both rear cylinders, swap em out, and bleed her out?
I read the other post concerning bleeding about the Load sensing valve and have already soaked it in penetrating oil.

Help is much appreciated.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Raggy on Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:08 pm

If its not loosing fluid is it the brake vaccuum thing (cant remember name of it at this time of day) leaking air? Thats my wild stab in the dark anyway. Good luck!
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:07 pm

Thanks. The system was leaking brake fluid some time ago and the rear left cylinder was wet so. I will have to swap the cylinders too. But because the retainer was still full this time i was also suspecting something else because i cant build up any pressure with the pedal. Somebody said it might be the master brake cylinder. Didnt think of the booster vacuum. So this can cause complete failure of the brakes? Not home right now will have to check tomorrow. Maybe only a kinked hose? You are giving me hope.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Raggy on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:44 pm

If you get air in the system it will fail as when you press the brake all you will be doing is compressing the air. Lots of pedal travel but not much action. Physics, air is compressible, fluid isn't. Could be the vacuum unit or a pipe leaking if the fluid level in the pot isn't going down. Lots of could be's, only you can confirm by checking. Let us all know how you get on.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Woodie on Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:58 pm

No, the Vacuum Servo won't cause the symptoms you have. Only the master cylinder would cause complete failure of the brakes. The servo is just to reduce the pressure you apply to the brake pedal.

Could be the rubber seals or the valve between the two stages of the Master Cylinder. I haven't read through the whole of this thread so have ave you been loosing fluid from the Reservoir and no sign of leaks other than the rear cylinder. I have had servo units full up with brake fluid, and the garages couldn't suss where the fluid was going to. Am I surprised. Nope.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:34 pm

Thanks woody. Yes there was some mysterious leakage a while ago. I will check if the MBC has leaked into the booster.

I found partnumbers in the Microfish. The ovehaul set seems to be expesive. But would also have to ask at my local daihatsu dealer for original price first.
Might be fantasy price as part seems to be pretty rare?


New stock MBC is 165 or 177€.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Woodie on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:38 pm

I have got used Master Cylinders still on vehicles so I can pressure test them first if you are interested in having a used Master Cylinder.
Stripping the cylinder down isn't exactly my idea of a fun evening actually.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:02 pm

Would prefere to buy from you. Time is of essence though and found some scrap vehicles around here, too.
Plus international shipping etc. Sent you PM


I also need more parts including a windshild, too so i need to find a scrap around here anyway.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:33 pm

So i ordered some slave cylinders from a random internet shop and it took them over a week to deliver. Actually i cancelled the order after a week of waiting and reordered from another shop.  Mad
The left flare nut came off easy with some heat. I swapped the rear left cylinder and bled it. It seemed to be fixed. I went for a test drive. After 4 or 5 full braking maneuvers the pedal suddenly became soft again. After two more times no more breaking at all. I checked and the rear right slave cylinder was now leaking.
I already had the part but one of the flare nut didnt come off no chance. So had to cut it and bend a new brake line from the right to the left slave cylinder. bounce  Afterwards i bled the hell out of it with a vacuum pump and pumping with pedal helps, too. All nipples have fresh dot4 coming out now.

BUT... I dont get any pressure when i close the bleed nipple.... Nothing. Strange thing i noticed is when i press it it seems the level in the retainer goes up a bit. when i lift the foot it goes down again. confused
I dont see any other obvious leaks or other damages to the brake lines. Unfortunately the master brake cylinder woody sent me was for the injection motor and its a different part (No problem woody refunds without hesitation. Thanks again, mate) So i am looking for another used one now as the new part is quite pricey. Do you have any other suggestions what it can be? Symptoms sound more like front cylinders, master cylinder, airlock, leak or break hose bubble? Symtoms are: No pressure build (slow bleeding (faster with vacuum pump)), On pressing the pedal slight increase of level in retainer. Suspect

PS.: I also bled the front brakes after I thought that this could be the problem. The fluid was very brown and yellow but now its all fresh. It didnt help with the braking though
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Woodie on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:52 am

I thought perhaps you could change the servo as well but looking at the mounting of your servo it is way different to the later Injection models. The master cylinder itself is bolted to the pedal box and steering column so that lot would have to be changed. Which would probably mean taking the dash out....... and even then there might be differences.
Not going to be an easy solution CJ.
Doubt that a repair kit would be available and I am surprised that a new Master Cylinder is still available. But the price almost certainly prohibitive.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:41 am

Master break cylinder:
Original part is available: 240€
Original repair kit is available: 90€
New aftermarket parts are in stock for 165€ to 200€

I will have to call the usual suspects and see if they can provide a used one.
If not ill go with the aftermarket part.

apart from that I am still not 100% sure master cylinder is the cause of my problem.


list of aftermarket suppliers and part numbers
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Logi on Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:51 pm

Did you bleed the load valve?
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by CoolJet on Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:34 pm

Yes i did bleed the load valve fresh dot 4 coming out no air. But there was so much crap coming out the master cylinder. I will bleed everything again with the new cylinder.

Because i got the master cylinder out and it seems to be broken.
Behaves strangely when i pump water through also there was unbelievable amount of dirt coming out. So i guess i want to put a brand new one in.... Anyways before i got it out i already ordered one from a local hijet breaker. Today he messaged me after he tested it and its broken, too. Kind of lucky. So I ordered a brand new part now for 180€  affraid !!! But i feel better with a new part. I also ordered a spare cap vor the retainer und a valve to build a pressure bleeding thing for my compressor. I keep you posted how i get along with pictures next time.

cheers
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Woodie on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:30 pm

For goodness sake don't use a Compressor. You could wreck your new Master Cylinder. Use a tyre valve connector and length of hose on to the cap and use the pressure in your tyre to push the fluid through. Drop the pressure in the tyre to about 20 lbs.
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Logi on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:35 pm

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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Woodie on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:37 pm

Reverse way of doing it then. Suck it through??
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Re: Bleeding brakes

Post by Logi on Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:00 pm

Always Twisted Evil
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Re: Bleeding brakes

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