Brake Bleeding

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Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:17 pm

Fitted a pair of shiny new brake callipers last weekend and went to bleed the system yesterday without much success, pedal just goes to the floor. Checked the workshop manual for the correct procedure (NSR, Load Sensor, NSF & OSF) and frustratingly I've pumped 2ltr of brake fluid through it now without any effect. Appreciate any suggestions that might help resolve my problem. All of the bleed points work OK and I've tried with the load sensor spring on and off.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Raggy on Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:05 pm

Never done any myself (that joy has yet to come) but did remember advice given on here by the wise old sage Highlyjetted:

Hijet brakes are a bitch to bleed.

Ensure the LSPV is in the open position:- e.g. unbolt the arm from the axle and cable tie the arm in the "up" position so it is pushing against the valve.

work your way round - do the fronts, then do the LSPV from all the flare nuts, then the drivers rear slave cylinder from the flare nuts, then the rear passener from the bleed nipple.

Expect problems!

Also, if some idiot has replaced the rear wheel cylinders because it has failed the MOT on a lack of rear brake effort, then you will never bleed them up. And if you do, it will not pass the MOT any better than the last failure 

Dont know if that helps or if its what you have done already.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Logi on Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:07 pm

.If the master cylinder isn't buggered you must have a massive airlock. If you have a compressor buy an air operated bleeder, Sealey do one for around twenty quid. Absolutely brilliant tool.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:24 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. Not sure if I'll be able to undo the any of the connections on the LSPV as thy are all well rounded, I managed to get it's bleed nipple open after a bit of a struggle and it's working OK. Ill try bleeding again and include the OSR wheel cylinder tomorrow.
The master cylinder was working fine on Saturday morning before I took the callipers off, is it prone to faults if drained of fluid?

Frustrated
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Lex_Michdebus on Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:35 pm

Will using an air compressor and a sucker make the process easier? Because I'm not in the mood for pumping my knee off.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by HighlyJetted on Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:58 pm

If the LSPV arm is not in the up position you will never bleed the rear axle.

There is feed and return brake line down the drivers side chassis which go to and from the arm. If you did not clamp off the flexi pipe down from the LSPV to the rear axle when you undid the rear slave cylinders, you are in for a right treat trying to bleed it back up. I have only succeeded by undoing the metal feed and return pipes to the LSPV.

Like wise if you leave the hoses disconnected from the front, and let the header tank go dry, you will lose the bleed from the feed and return pipes to the LSPV.

They are such a total arse. I work on loads of different vehicles, but Hijets are THE worst vehicles to bleed up.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Logi on Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:14 pm

Lex_Michdebus wrote:Will using an air compressor and a sucker make the process easier? Because I'm not in the mood for pumping my knee off.

Yes.

One of the best tools I have ever bought, did mine in 10 mins .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/130649782649?adgroupid=13585920426&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=pla-131843267586&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&ff19=0&googleloc=9046919&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:00 am

Going today to buy a vacuum bleeder with a hand pump as I don't have a compressor. Hope it does the trick.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Logi on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:00 am

They're ok, but I haven't used mine since I got the air one.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Lex_Michdebus on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:42 pm

Logi wrote:
Lex_Michdebus wrote:Will using an air compressor and a sucker make the process easier? Because I'm not in the mood for pumping my knee off.

Yes.

One of the best tools I have ever bought, did mine in 10 mins .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/130649782649?adgroupid=13585920426&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=pla-131843267586&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&ff19=0&googleloc=9046919&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

Then this will be my next tool purchase, because they're starting to feel a little spongy.

I bought a Gunson Easybleed (or Eezybleed?) once, but never used it because the caps that come with it didn't fit any of my cars. I guess old Japanese cars are different.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by HighlyJetted on Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:37 pm

Put all the pressure you like behind it.

That return line from the LSPV needs opening at one end or the other to bleed it.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by danielfrisbee on Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 am

reading through this as I've realised my front left break is fairly dodgy, makes a grinding noise as you slow down, on peering in their it seems the pads are warn out. Hoping I can get away with just replacing them without doing all of the strange stuff you guys are talking about.. but I guess I'm posting to ask, is it worth risking working on the breaks of a car with no idea what you're doing? I'm fairly practical and keen to learn how to keep my hijet alive, but I guess if that conflicts with keeping myself alive, I might be better off seeing a mechanic..?
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Logi on Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:06 am

danielfrisbee wrote:reading through this as I've realised my front left break is fairly dodgy, makes a grinding noise as you slow down, on peering in their it seems the pads are warn out. Hoping I can get away with just replacing them without doing all of the strange stuff you guys are talking about.. but I guess I'm posting to ask, is it worth risking working on the breaks of a car with no idea what you're doing? I'm fairly practical and keen to learn how to keep my hijet alive, but I guess if that conflicts with keeping myself alive, I might be better off seeing a mechanic..?

No.
Hijets need brakes, your knees are the crumple zone.
It's not difficult, but neither is rocket science if you're a rocket scientist. Best to get someone who knows what they're doing and watch.
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Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:48 pm

Having tried unsuccessfully to open the rounded off and rusted pipe joints on my LSPV lines I decided today to do a complete back axle brake pipe overhaul.  The LSPV mounting bolts gave way eventually and it's now on the bench looking as good as new after a good clean and paint.  I had to use a vice to grip the old pipe fittings when stripping down, impossible to do on the van with a spanner given their poor state.  With the rebuild in mind I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about the cross axle brake pipe fitted between both wheel cylinders.  Personally I don't like this system, I intend to rebuild using a 3 way Tee at the axle and pipe each wheel cylinder individually, this will also allow for a bleed nipple on each brake cylinder.  Grateful for any comments if anyone has tried this previously.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:56 pm

Should have updated this last week following my brake bleeding problem.  After much head scratching and a lot of frustrating attempts with pressure bleeders, vacuum pumps and foot pumping, my fault turned out to be the front brake callipers Id just fitted.  Whilst staring at one of the offending items I decided on impulse to force the calliper piston fully home with a large screwdriver, lo and behold a huge bubble of air was expelled into my bleed hose. Same result at the other calliper and at last a working brake pedal, this despite having pushed at least a litre of oil through each calliper previously.  Worth remembering if you're starting with dry callipers make sure that the pistons are fully home before you start bleeding.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Raggy on Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:18 pm

I may be wrong but I think the fluid does not go through the calliper piston just in and out of it hence the problem you found with the piston being out, air was behind the piston and was only being compressed not moved as the incomming pressure was stopping the air going out. When you moved the piston in the air as it now had no incomming fluid resitance was able to exit via the bleed. With the Hijets it could be a quirk of the callipers and maybe the way you did it would have worked with any other make! Sods law!
Good point though remembering to make sure the pistons are fully home before starting to try and bleed the system then fluid wil fill the space as it pushes the cylinder out. At least you got chance to Refurb the LSPV so the whole system got a good going over. Great news you got it all sorted though! cheers
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:32 pm

You're correct in your thoughts Raggy, over the years I've worked on many an automotive beast and this is the first time I've come across this problem, bleed points are normally designed to purge all of the air in a calliper bore regardless of the piston position. I think I was lucky but at least I know now.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Raggy on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:47 am

Yes you know now and fortunately we all know now, thats the beauty of the forum, sharing the knowledge and bits you find out by accident or design! Keep the info coming, photos are always welcome.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by wrightgeordie on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:03 am

How do I post photograph's? I've been taking the odd pic as my rebuild progresses, happy to share if I can find out how.
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Re: Brake Bleeding

Post by Woodie on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:51 am

It's like the Trinity, a mystery and a very sore subject on here for some of us. Sad
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Re: Brake Bleeding

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