Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:02 pm

Second update on tests with the engine running:

- with the pipe off the cap and blocked, there's no gasses coming out of the filler cap stub. I've held my finger over it for 30 seconds and there doesn't seem to be any difference when I take it off.
- With the filler cap off, when I put my hand over the oil filler pipe, there's a bit of suction.
- When I have the breather pipe disconnected and my finger blocking it, the revs are low. When I take my finger off they shoot up and then come back down a little.

So it sounds like it's not a problem with that - is that correct?

Any suggestions of where to go now?

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:40 pm

Any ideas? Sad taking the engine out this weekend after a compression test seeing as I went to the trouble of getting an effing engine crane....

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by Raggy on Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:16 pm

What was the result of the compression test? Not good? Hats off to the effort you are putting in to this.
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:02 pm

Ah not done it yet... Hopefully tomorrow. But will let you know the results. Still don't know what to do, get a new engine, do a repair, give up... Suppose it depends on what I find out over the weekend!

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:15 pm

Update on compression test:

1: 130
2: 125
3: 147
4: 125

However, when I put oil down no.1 and ran again the compression was 175.

Also noticed that the plug for 4 was a bit oily in the threads... plug head is white though like the rest.

We've come in for a cup of tea and to warm up after disconnecting the engine (don't know if anyone's done this before but some of the bolts around the clutch are a nightmare and no easier the second time - one took us over 40 minutes). We're going to take the engine out tonight and then look at it tomorrow.

To be honest I'm feeling really fed up about the whole thing... just want a working van without having to go through loads more work and more cost.

Question... has anyone put in a different engine, e.g. Terios or Charade? Or anyone know any engine going that's not crap?

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by Woodie on Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:53 pm

I have got a good 1300 out, in my garage. Drove it down to Southampton from Woking. Always started on the key every time I went to use it. It had tatty bodywork and wasn't worth the time tidying it up, so I broke it for spares. hi.jetmaniow@gmail.com
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:23 pm

Further investigations -

Got the cylinder head off in order to look at the piston rings. The gasket looks good - any opinions? The oil in the last cylinder is from me putting oil down the plug for the compression test. Sorry for the crap pictures, it was dark.






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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by HighlyJetted on Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:20 pm

How did you look at the piston rings with the head off?

What do the Valve stem oil seals look like?
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:17 am

Not got that far yet with the stem seals... don't really want to take all the valves out. My thoughts is to do the pistons first and see where we get with that - if that doesn't reveal anything then stem seals by process of elimination. For getting to the piston rings I followed the manual - take the head off and then take the pistons out from the back. Only got one out before we threw in the towel last night.

Pissed off that the head gasket is fine and I still need to buy a new one. I expect there's no way of reusing this one? Done about 1500... reading around trying to find someone saying yes fine reuse it but that's ignoring the other 1,246 comments saying hell no Smile

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:53 pm

Piston ring update for those of you who are hanging onto your hats for the latest news! Smile

Specified values:
N: 0.27-0.37 with an allowable limit of 0.7mm
N2: 0.4-0.55 with an allowable limit of 0.8mm

1: N= 55, N2=83 (compression: 130)
2: N= 50, N2=83 (compression: 142)
3: N= 55, N2=88 (compression: 125)
4: N= 50, N2=88 (compression: 130)

I don't have the capacity to measure the bores themselves. There are a few heavy scratches but the cross marks are still visible. I can take some photos later.

So this looks like the source of the oil loss. Not sure if it is also the cause of the water in the oil.

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:50 pm

You don't have to take the valves out.

Just look at the stem oil seals and look for the perished bits.

Were the scraper rings pretty clean or gummed up to hell?
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:38 pm

The stem seals are new from last time I did the valves. Do they won't be perished, the only thing is that when I put them on they weren't put on with the greatest of care. Eg. I remember the odd one qwntvon wonky and then I corrected it. Should have read the manual first.

The rings were quite gummed up but we're free moving. I can send some pics later if that helps?

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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by Raggy on Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:24 pm

Yes, worn rings would explain spne oil use but dont think water as that should be a sealed system and rings would not effect that, leaking head gasket, yes, rings no (open to someone telling me I talking twaddle though Laughing )
As for the head gasket, safest is to just buy a new one, just think, if you used existing one and it didnt work you would have it all to do again anyway! Head gaskets are compression seal and not like a paper gasket that you could use again with some more sealant to help.
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by Woodie on Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:53 am

With worn rings  and high oil consumption  you would expect to  white smoke from the exhaust and oil filler pipe with the cap removed. The exhaust tailpipe will be mucky, and spark plugs won't be the colour  you are seeing.

But you are getting none of this, and having gone through so many different scenarios,  I am baffled with your problem.
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:27 pm

I would either expect gummed up scraper rings, or failed valve stem oil seals.

They are the only possible causes of oil burning.

Unless it was leaking it from a dodgy rocker cover gasket onto the exhaust manifold.

I would diesel test it obviously - but now you've taken the pistons out its a bit late!
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Re: Figuring out the problem...overheating and oil

Post by maralions on Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:36 pm

It did have the rocker cover gasket replaced just before I got it. Anyway I'm just about at my wits end with it and I think I'm going to go with Woodie's engine. Annoying but it's taking a ridiculous amount of time and energy now!

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