Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

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Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by 602 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:34 am

Hi,

Some background. In 1964 (before the 70 limit was invented) I was done for doing 80mph in an 850cc Minivan. No speed limit on the road, but at that time Goods Vehicles were limited to 40mph. I pleaded not guilty, but alas, I was fined £2. I believe that car-derived vans are now restricted to car speed limits. Hijets are not car-derived, so the penalty points start at 50mph.

More recently, I presented the car toll fee on the Severn Bridge. They told me that my Mazda Double Cab was a goods vehicle, and asked for £11ish. I only had a tenner on me, which they accepted. OT ... All Land Rovers count as cars on the Severn bridge.

Dual Purpose vehicles count as cars. I will put the regs at the end of this mail.

Has anybody fitted seats in the back of a Hijet? Is there anything to prevent doing this? Are seat belts required for those seats, and if so, do they need to be approved (SVA?). Gov.uk. says not, but that was dated 2010. I think rear facing seats do not require belts.

Comments, suggestions, and advice please.

602

(ii)
satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)
the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)
the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)
be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)
be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)
the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by Woodie on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:35 am

Oh not this old cherry again. If you have a look back through the posts John this subject has been covered so many times. A lot of times by me, by Highly Jetted, Logi and others.

In SHORT, a van does not have ANY MOUNTINGS WHATSOEVER FOR FITTING SEATS OR SEAT BELTS.

The MPV HAS got all the necessary MOT STANDARD flooring mounts, side brackets for seat belts, and upper mountings on the middle and rear door posts. The van does not.
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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by Raggy on Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:23 pm

I agree with Woodie....and my head hurts after reading the top legislative garbage.
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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by 602 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:43 pm

Hi,

Sorry! New here. I'll try not to do it again.

I don't think there is any question ... seats and seat belts CAN be fitted into almost anything. I fitted seats into my 1959 Minivan (eventually). I can buy everything needed to bolt seat belts into my 1959 Land Rover, which means bolting brackets to aluminium body panels that are bolted to the chassis. Kit car builders are able to pass an SVA with home brewed belt mountings.

My question was MAY seats and seat belts be fitted to a Hijet, without the need for an SVA.

602

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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by Woodie on Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:58 pm

John you are obviously a very knowledgeable and capable person so the choice obviously lays with you ultimately. But if you fitted seats and belts and it hadn't had Ministry Station check and you had someone pile into you, and even though you did not have someone in the seat, the vehicle is non compliant with current Mot regulations your insurance and the person who hits you or you hit in an accident, the insurance assessor if they examine your vehicle as a write off COULD turn round and declare your car insurance null and void. Then where will you be?? I'm sure you know the answer to that one.

We all make mods to our vehicles and " forget" to tell our Insurance companies even down to wider rims and tyres, but they will always try to slide out of paying out any way they can. I've shared my thoughts with you and it's up to you now. I'm not going to say anything more about it.
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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by PFM on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:50 pm

To recap, mounting points are fabricated into the MPV's, but not the vans, which were always cheaper from new. There are, AFAIK, no conversion kits so you'd be on your own. I guess if you did a good enough job to pass an MOT you'd be some way there, but you know the regs. Again, AFAIK, no-one on here has done it legally. Not like the old days of lashing a sofa into the back of a Bedford CA (or HA) van!

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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by Logi on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:46 pm

Well, I have a rear seat, single, and it has MOT approved seatbelt mounts. Cos they;re on the seat. But it's bolted through the floor, and that bit is the issue, other prob is then you need the door handles to work on the sliding doors, which not a lot of Hijets have..... Wink
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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by 602 on Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:46 am

Hi All,

Thank you for the later, more subdued, response. The initial response left me a bit bemused.

I believe that you can do whatever you like to a vehicle, and it will be legal providing it passes an SVA/IVA. The problem there is that the WHOLE vehicle has to comply with the latest SVA/IVA rules, so best avoided if possible. Another problem is that there is "Legislation", and there is "Policy". A couple of weeks ago, I had a reply from the Director of DVLA, saying that what I was asking was "inappropriate". I am mulling over my next move.

I have read arguments recently that, for instance, flaring the arches of a Ford Escort, and cutting a window in the side of a Transit van, should be considered to be "radical changes", requiring an SVA/IVA.

Insurance? Try a Google for VEHICLE EXCISE AND REGISTRATION ACT Para 148 ... sorry, can't remember if it's 1984 or 1994. It is VERY difficult for an insurer to wriggle out of a THIRD PARTY claim. EG: If you were run over by a drunk driver, you would expect his insurer to pay up. But there would be little point in him claiming for his buckled bumper. But ... I have read recently that insurers can void a policy with immediate effect. I don't know if they can void it retrospectively. ??? The above Act allows them to sue you to recover their losses.

Logi ... is there a specific MOT FAIL for your seat belt arrangement. I would expect the MOT to check for security and damage, with the SVA/IVA making decisions on whether the fittings are strong enough. But hey, what do I know? My Land Rover is exempt from seat belts, but a kit is available ... the shoulder strap is hung, indirectly, from the detachable aluminium roof. I assume that you remove your third seat prior to an MOT?

Good point about the side doors not opening from inside, though I might ask how that differs from the rear seats in a Renault Scenic 7-seater?

Nuff said, I will wind my neck in, not raise the subject again ... unless my researches produce something really exciting.

Woodie ... I have no idea how to find stuff in the archives. I didn't know there were any archives.

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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by Raggy on Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:24 am

If you select the Search button on the top menu then select Advanced you will be able to put what ever search terms you want into it which will give results from all of the posts ever done on the forum, quite a handy feature.
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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by 602 on Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:58 am

Hi Raggy,

Thanks for that ... learn a little every day. The devil seems to be in knowing what to ask for.

Logi ... a search for "rock'n roll seats" produces "crash tested seats with built in belts". Not a lot of description. Is that what you have?

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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by Logi on Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:08 pm

Nope. It's a generic rear seat for a minibus, how does it pass the MOT? Simple, it's not in Smile
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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by 602 on Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:49 am

Hi Logi,

Google ROCK AND ROLL SEATS. It seems that seats with their own attached seat belts CAN be bolted in ... but the websites are a little vague about how it's done.

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Re: Windows, seats, speed limits, and tolls.

Post by 602 on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:17 am

Hi,

Now my eleventh day, and I still cannot send links nor photographs.

After you have Googled ROCK AND ROLL BEDS, click on the VAN TRACKS website, which says ...

Hi,

I'm now on my eleventh day, and still cannot send links nor photographs. I cannot change the font to BOLD either.

Google ROCK AND ROLL BEDS VAN TRACKS, who say ...

<<< Rock & Roll Beds
M1 Pull tested/ Crash Tested. We supplied our first Rock & Roll bed 3 years ago and have fine tuned the system to work in most modern vans. With the M1 certificate extra safety is always at the forefront so rather than just bolting the frame to the vehicles floor we use heavy gauge plates that are secured under the van and that makes our seats/ beds one of the safest and strongest Rock and Roll systems on the market. There are 2 types of frames to choose from depending if you require carrying passengers or not. >>>

The problem seems to be these "travel" seats with their own belts, is ... prices start at £710.

The problem with YOUR seat might be that you don't have a certificate ... unless it is stamped somewhere on the belt bracket, or wherever.

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