Different 1300 engines?!

Go down

Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:57 pm

Hey guys,

Picked up a 1300 engine this week and i noticed that it was a little different then the one I have in my pick-up. When I took a look at my Van today I also noticed it's not the same as the pick-up.
The Van is from 1999 and the Pick-up from 2003.

I noticed that my pickup has an EGR valve on the inlet manifold and the Van hasn't. The EGR is connected to the inlet side of the head?! Shouldn't it be connected the the exhaust side? If I look at the gaskets that you can order, you have a 5th hole in the inlet gasket, but only 4 in the exhaust gasket. So is there some chamber in the cylinder head? And if so, wouldn't it just take exhaust fumes from 1 cylinder?
My Pick-up is stored for the winter so I can't see how it works from here. I have to do it with the pictures that I have

I also noticed that the injectors from the pick-up are red instead of yellow. Next to that it has 4 ignition coils instead of the 2 I have on my Van.

Also the pick-up has a second oxygen sensor. One on the outlet manifold just like my Van and one after the catalytic converter. So I assume that the ECU is also different...

So if you guys know more details about the differences, please let me know. And do you guys think it is a improvement to have the EGR? In my opinion EGR systems don't benefit the engine, just the emissions.
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by kernowjon01 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:25 pm

Hi my 2001 1300 pick-up has one oxygen sensor - in the manifold just by the flange joining the exhaust system. It also has 4 coils.
I haven't looked for an EGR Valve - I do not think there is one. By its nature the EGR must link the Exhaust to the Inlet
EGR Valve = Exhaust Gas Recycling Valve
I hope that helps to some extent.
Jon
avatar
kernowjon01
Centurion

Posts : 116
Join date : 2018-02-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:40 pm

The whole camcover is different on the 4 coil pack, the manifold is different having the EGR Valve and pipes. I will put up some comparison pictures tomorrow for you.
The second Sensor is on the Silencer, not on the Cat.
And from memory yes the head is different having the hole for the EGR. I will check it all out for you tomorrow afternoon Patrick and let you know the differences.

If you are putting the 2003 engine in you will have to change the Camcover to the original 2 Coil Pack one as obviously the wiring loom is not interchangeable with the 4 coil pack set up.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:02 pm





The EGR equipped inlet manifold is somewhat busier than the earlier manifold. I will find some more pictures for you tomorrow.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:36 pm

Hey Woodie,
Do you really have 4 inlet manifolds on your workbench?! Now you are just showing off Wink haha

Thanks for the replies. I know what a EGR does, but I just can't see how it is connected. Hopefully Woodie can give us more insight on that Smile

I wonder how exchangeable everything is. Are there a lot of different ECU's or are they programmed to work with all systems?
Jon already has a different setup because he has just 1 oxygen sensor.
So we have:

1999  Van       2_coils  no_EGR   1_Oxygen sensor
2001  Pickup    4_coils  no_EGR   1_Oxygen sensor
2003  Pickup    4_coils  no_EGR   2_Oxygen sensors
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:27 pm

On the bench there are 3 but 3 more in my second store. I have taken a couple of pictures this afternoon and you can see that the manifolds have major differences.
You will have to use your existing manifold and Camcover along with the 2 Coil Pack Wasted Spark System. I am sending this first and then try to send the two pictures from this dinky Z5 phone.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:33 pm





avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:37 pm

I haven't got a head off here at home but I'll have a look on Monday afternoon on my way back home from THREE Hospital appointments throughout the day. Nightmare what damage one little Tick can cause to one's body.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by kernowjon01 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 pm

Woodie wrote:I haven't got a head off here at home but I'll have a look on Monday afternoon on my way back home from THREE Hospital appointments throughout the day. Nightmare what damage one little Tick can cause to one's body.

Woodie, I hope all goes well with the hospital appointments. Jon
avatar
kernowjon01
Centurion

Posts : 116
Join date : 2018-02-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:58 pm

Thanks Jon. Hopefully they will find some signs of a brain. Just having dinner so apologies for the brief response.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PFM on Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:28 pm

I think you're being a bit optimistic though, Woody - to have your head off and hospital to send you home on the same day beats the NHS we have round here! Very Happy
Seriously though, hope all goes well.

PFM
Jet Addict

Posts : 1498
Join date : 2010-04-24
Age : 57
Location : East Sussex

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:53 pm

Very droll PFM. Hadn't sussed that one. I had my Diabetes MOT a couple of weeks ago and had the results last week. Passed with no observations so pretty pleased with that anyway.

Managed to get a few more jobs done on a van I have been working on for ages as it has been dry and sunny - but the Non-Ferrous Monkeys were breeding considerably this week. Cor it was flipping cold laying on the concrete in the open. Certainly miss my old draughty but dry garage.

I stripped my wife's X plate Grand Move of all the spares I wanted but had to keep it looking tidy so as not to upset any neighbors and got rid of it within hours of finishing it on the drive.

Trouble is now her mum has departed this mortal coil, Gayle will be around a heck of a lot more so getting up to some of the tricks I have been doing at home and on the drive will have to be carefully planned for when she is at work or visiting etc.

12 years and I will finally have a full time wife. My Romahome is looking like being rather handy this year.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:09 pm

Hey Woodie. Hope everything is well with your health. At least all Hijet owners are depending on you as far as I can see Wink So your health is in all of our interest Smile

Thanks for the pictures. When I look at the contamination on the intake manifold I can see that there is an EGR connected. A small hole, but there is one.

Also when I read a different topic I learned that Jon has found a second oxygen sensor Wink so:

1999  Van       2_coils  no_EGR   1_Oxygen sensor
2001  Pickup    4_coils  no_EGR   2_Oxygen sensors
2003  Pickup    4_coils  no_EGR   2_Oxygen sensors
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:58 pm

Yes, stupid boy. We have an advert on Television here Patrick saying : " Should have gone to Specsavers" (Opticians).
Should have the second Sensor in the top of his head between his ears and connected up to a Hi-Jet ECU. lol!
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by kernowjon01 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:39 pm

Woodie wrote:Yes, stupid boy. We have an advert on Television here Patrick saying : " Should have gone to Specsavers" (Opticians).
Should have the second Sensor in the top of his head between his ears and connected up to a Hi-Jet ECU. lol!

lol! Maybe silly old fart would be more fitting - I believe that I am older than you Woodie Wink
avatar
kernowjon01
Centurion

Posts : 116
Join date : 2018-02-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Woodie on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:54 pm

What??? Impossible!!! I'm 68 in around 3 weeks time. You are not allowed to be older than me. Or in my case should that be Hallowed?? Ruddy big head. Always been the same. Can't change the habits of a lifetime - and no wish to. I wouldn't be me if I was humble and self deprecating - plus I would be even more of a bore than I am already. But I am honest if nothing else.
avatar
Woodie
Jet Addict

Posts : 1468
Join date : 2016-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Niton, Isle of Wight.

http://thehijetmaniow@gmail.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:28 pm

Hey guys,

Since we are talking about engines 1300 engines... The Daihatsu Charade has also the 1300 engine. It has the same bore and stroke but has a lot more power than our Hijet engines.

These are what I think might be the difference:
- cam shaft
- ecu
- the Hijet has an cam angle sensor instead of a rotor that controls the spark

I'm thinking about trying to get more power out of the 1300 engine. If a standard Charade can have more then 90hp then why did they gave a only 65hp??
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:30 pm

also injectors and fuel pressure might be different.

Does anyone have a workshop manual of a Charade?
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by kernowjon01 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:39 am

PvdB wrote:Hey guys,

Since we are talking about engines 1300 engines... The Daihatsu Charade has also the 1300 engine. It has the same bore and stroke but has a lot more power than our Hijet engines.

These are what I think might be the difference:
- cam shaft
- ecu
- the Hijet has an cam angle sensor instead of a rotor that controls the spark

I'm thinking about trying to get more power out of the 1300 engine. If a standard Charade can have more then 90hp then why did they gave a only 65hp??

I think the Charade engine is conventional in the sense Cylinder head at the top Sump at the bottom.  If so the first thing would be a different sump and oil pump pick-up - so the engine can be laid down flat.
What may be worth looking at is the harade cylinder head - would it fit the HiJet block? If so you are well on the way to using a Charade ECU
Although the power problem may lie with the acute angles in the "folded" inlet manifold of the HiJet.

Life was simpler pre ECUs - when you could try things on the "suck it and see principle"

ust a thought - why not go for a BMW K series Motorcycle engine and gearbox?
Jon
avatar
kernowjon01
Centurion

Posts : 116
Join date : 2018-02-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by scotia on Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:35 pm

inlet and outlet , ecu..

copied from higlyjetted:

Mine in my garage has the 1.6 engine, that's how I made this web page here http://www.daihatsuhijet.co.uk/engine-conversion-1-6-1600-sportrak-grand-move-terios-daihatsu-hijet/

The hijet engine has much longer runners on the inlet manifold for a starters, this will lower the peak torque rpm point thus the peak horse power will be considerably lower.

Then the hijet has the hotdog/log style exhaust manifold which will seriously lower the peak torque point.

As the Hijet is a van, with a large maximum working load, Daihatsu did the right thing by designing its engine to have all the torque in the middle and low down thus the manifolds being the way they are. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to drive the loaded van up hills or from standing starts without reving the tits off it.

If you shorten a manifolds runners you move the torque band up the rev range. If you make a 4-2-1 or 4-1 exhaust manifold with long runners, again you shift the torque to a higher rev range.

So the bits that make the Charade/Terios more peaky cannot be fitted to the Hijet because they simply won't fit under the seats and in the engine compartment due to the lean over installation.

Hijet
Bhp @ rpm: 64/4800
Lb/ft @ rpm: 73/2800

Charade
Bhp @ rpm: 90/6500
Lb/ft @ rpm: 74/5500

And of course, to make the more highly strung engines air flow characteristics work, in the charade the ECU will be tuned very differently. Far more ignition advance, a much leaner mid range and a richer top range.

Unfortunately in today's ignorant max power top gear world, engines get "valued" on peak horse power. Having loads of power just before the redline doesn't really make a vehicle any use in 99% of driving. It might make it quick down a 1/4 mile strip where your going to keep it singing in every gear from th

All the 1.3 1.5 1.6 have the same bore. Just more stroke to increase the CC's

As with these things, longer stroke engines are less willing to make lots of power / rev hard than shorter stroke. That's why sports bike engines have very short strokes. Longer rods help over come this, but that means making the block taller.... Go research "Rod ratio" if you want more info.

Anyway back to topic, the 1.3 piston has taller crowns compared to the 1.5/1.6 pistons. You can put the 1.3 pistons onto the 1.6 rods which would definatly help it make more power. So some numbers to the theoretical compression ratios:-

HC 1.3 makes 9.5:1
HD 1.6 makes 9.5:1
But put the 1.3 pistons in a 1.6 and you get a stunning 11.06:1 that will help you make a fair bit more power.

The 1.3 hijet cam is a bit bigger by my measurements to the sportrak cam.... but I don't have a dial gauge etc to measure them properly. Get a Detomaso or charade gti cam if you can find one as they are the most aggressive - but rare - but if you want one you can find one, ask Jim on the Daihard BBS forum.

You can only use the Hijet flywheel as the others fit the clutch a bit differently, and the hijet flywheel is much lighter than the sportrak one.
avatar
scotia
Cinquecento

Posts : 908
Join date : 2014-01-27
Age : 37
Location : twente

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:14 am

Thanks for the info guys!

I've spend some time on reading information about intake manifold designs. Never knew that it could have been of so much influence! But it's nice to learn something more about engines.

So now I have a lot more information to think about.... It's at least not as simple as just changing some parts Razz
The ECU of the Charade must be tuned for the shorter intake manifold. Switching the ECU won't help getting more power out of the Hijet at least. Not if you keep the original intake manifold. But looking at the space we have, switching the intake manifold is not an option Razz
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by kernowjon01 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:16 am

PvdB wrote:
The ECU of the Charade must be tuned for the shorter intake manifold. Switching the ECU won't help getting more power out of the Hijet at least. Not if you keep the original intake manifold. But looking at the space we have, switching the intake manifold is not an option Razz

Possibly of equal importance is the exhaust manifold - a badly designed exhaust manifold chokes up the engine with exhaust gases - leaving the engine effectively constipated Wink
The HiJet manifold is not a design - just a pipe bolted onto the exhaust manifold - it is reminiscent of the exhaust manifold used in 1950s / 60s Ford Consul Mk1 & 2 and the Zephyr and Zodiac Mk1 & 2.
In a properly designed / tuned manifold the distance between each port and where the manifold joins the exhaust proper should be equi distant - hence the twists and turns in many exhaust manifolds.
Having lain under my truck, looking up I concluded that a decent exhaust manifold (possibly terminating in a 2 pipe exhaust) would be possible - there is enough room. However would I invest the time and effort building one? I think not - surely the 1600 would be a better project.
Jon
avatar
kernowjon01
Centurion

Posts : 116
Join date : 2018-02-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by scotia on Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:37 am

maybe you can find a company that can build you a custom made in and outlet?
like this carry engine..
avatar
scotia
Cinquecento

Posts : 908
Join date : 2014-01-27
Age : 37
Location : twente

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by PvdB on Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:42 am

Yes, I know the exhaust manifold sucks Razz Making a custom manifold doensn't sound that bad to me. Getting the 1.6 through MOT 'officially' not easy to do. If you have a car that is from January 1st 1998 until now, then the regulations are much more strict. And it will cost serious money including a road handling test to get it official. So if I keep the 1.3 in there and give it a little more power than that's already a win for me. Don't need a coffin on wheels Razz
avatar
PvdB
Centurion

Posts : 204
Join date : 2016-02-22
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by scotia on Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:21 pm

1.3 with a 1.6 head.. you cant see the difference on the outside of a 1.3 or 1.6 head.
I think the difference between enginecode is stammped only on the lowerblock.
so a 1.3 with 1.6 head will still look like 1.3 to a  mot/apk mechanic

if i were you i would look into an 1.3 with 1.6 head, better maybe custom in and outlet, removeable cat that you can switch between empty cat and a normal one if its apk/mot time.
Maybe look into other injectors to.. i would forget the ecu story or maybe go with a custom standalone ecu but that will be verry expensive i think

if it makes around 85-90 hp it would be enough no?
i think they run well for such a litle van.. 85-90hp would drive nice i think
avatar
scotia
Cinquecento

Posts : 908
Join date : 2014-01-27
Age : 37
Location : twente

Back to top Go down

Re: Different 1300 engines?!

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum