mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:23 am

daisydon wrote:I'm liking the pics of the cooling system HJ... But, on the 1.3 i cant see it showing the hose coming from the top of the rad or where it goes to, is there another diagram any where that shows this? Would be quite handy knowing where any hidden joins in pipes are

Fraid not, i've looked and looked and looked and....

Maybe I've not spotted it, although I spent a couple of hours digging through them. It's not part of the heater section or the coolant section, plus I've looked at pretty much all the others.

I think cheap crappy rad caps wont be helping matters at all. Everything made in china nowadays sucks monkey bum.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:52 pm

So,no leaking at rad cap but still got a problem,
Drove to Harlow to get gas, about 15 miles and the temp gauge rising, stopped for a bit to see if fan would kick in on tick over... No, the higher the gauge goes, the colder the air from heater gets, water pushed into expansion tank, then air bubbling in.... Left it to cool for a bit while I went shopping, temp down to 1/4 some water sucked back from expansion tank, hot air, drove home fine, let it idle when I got back, agian as temp gauge goes up air gets colder, water into expansion tank then air bubbling into it!??????? When temp goes to max, all bottom pipes are cool, after engine has cooled a bit everything back to even temp


What the hell is going on here then????!!!!!

I'll see if all water gas been sucked back from expansion tank later tonight
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:22 pm

daisydon wrote:water into expansion tank then air bubbling into it!???????

That's the gas you want to test with the block testing fluid Daisy. That will tell you if your pissing in the wind (e.g. head gasket), or if its a smaller issue.

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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:15 pm

yeah, that has already been done, came back negative

just checked on water levels, it had sucked about half back in from expansion tank had an air pocket in expansion tube about the same volume as water not sucked back in, i dont get how its overheating withought a thermostat in.

im now pretty much back to the problem i had after so called mechanic fixed my "i have no hot air in the cab" problem which was caused by the "fixing" of an earlier overheating problem

so to recap,

started with a mild overheating problem when stuck in traffic..... took it to garage, fixed by replacing stuck thermostat

then... as winter drew in i found i had no hot air in cab... back to same mechanic.. fixed problem by putting in a thermostat, because there aparently wasnt one there!

then start overheating while driving round town, the more gear changes the hotter it gets, backwards and forwards to same mechanic, problem gets worse and worse....
water starts pissing out the rad cap...
then i notice the gauging on the radiator mouth, add a seal to the cap, fixes leak there,
now im back to overheating while driving round town

lesson learned here, dont let (now ex) boyfriend mechanic work on my van unattended!

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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:04 pm

right, so back round in the circle.... That pressure test on the coolant system, how did that go? How much air did you loses over how much time, and what pressure did it stop leaking at?

Pressure test wants doing with the water in it first, then if that shows no leak down, then do it dry - but be warned it is more dangerous to do it dry as for reasons you can imagine. On a dry test, a squirty bottle of soapy water is what you want to detect leaks by seeing bubbles.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:16 pm

preasure test from the expansion pipe seemed to indicate even presure, the kit wont fit on the rad now, i think thats what gauged it origonaly cos its after the first pressure test the rad cap started leaking,

ive not done it totaly dry tho, thats a good idea, think ill take it to the garage and do the test myself on monday, i think i need to do the block test myself too with no one interfering!

im also doubting whether the thermostat was taken out last time, is it possable to put one in the wrong way round on these???!!!!

its so bloody fustrating having no where at mine to do any proper work on it, woking in the road on a bend everyone speeds round is not ideal!
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:01 pm

HighlyJetted wrote:




hi hj, just having a look at the 1.3 wheres the water pump? i cant see it but propably just not looking properly, and whats the thing on the back bottom of rad labelled 51?
taking into xs garage on monday, i have insisted i do the tests myself! interestingly ages ago i said i thought it was the rad not flowing properly and got the usual respose of "oh no it isnt that" now im being told "it could be the radiator"!!!


Last edited by daisydon on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling and missing words... again!!)
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by Logi on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:03 am

Has it ever had any sealant in the rad(to your knowledge)? I'm thinking blocked radiator could be an issue?
Heater's the first thing to go cold due to lack of water, for whatever reason the fan doesn't seem to work when the coolant level drops, mine didn't, filled it and it worked? Go figure.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by Logi on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:04 am

Oh and the water pump is the thing in the bottom r/h corner that looks like a waterpump.......... Razz
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by Logi on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:06 am

And 51's a drain plug Wink
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:25 am

Logi wrote:Has it ever had any sealant in the rad(to your knowledge)? I'm thinking blocked radiator could be an issue?
Heater's the first thing to go cold due to lack of water, for whatever reason the fan doesn't seem to work when the coolant level drops, mine didn't, filled it and it worked? Go figure.

it had k seal in recently, dont know about before i got it (4 years ago now) but in my opinion there was way too much sludge and rust in the expansion tank, it looked to me like the rad was corroding and filling the system with crudd. it took me ages to convince him to even flush the rad, at the moment it has pretty clean water in it! even if it is the rad bloked the air is still getting in from somewhere
i have a plan for doing another block test cos im not so sure the one he did was acurate, i dont want to go buying a new rad only to find it is the hg
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:43 am

I don't have a number 51 drain plug on my radiators. It does have a big metal core plug thing that I can't get out of my spare one with out abuse.

I was thinking about these rads, water flows through them like this as per my experiment a few minutes ago, as they have a little divider in the bottom plastic end cap.


Now that makes the hijet have a very narrow radiator, the equivalent to a only having about 11 cores or veins to use in parallel - at least half that of any normal setup - but twice as long as most average setups. This would leave them very susceptible to clogging, possibly making them very unsuitable for rad-weld or other clotting/coating agents (sludge's).

So then I went thinking about that top breather hose off the top of the radiator cap neck which goes to the heater matrix:-



Now the question is, does the heater matrix get full of air which gets pushed over to the top of the radiator, or does air off the top of the radiator get pushed over to the heater matrix Question

This is very much connected to the typical traits of over heating hijets and the cold blower/mess with the heater symptom. Seems funny that a system that can easily get a radiator blockage, often goes weird when you move the heat selector.

Now the heater matrix flow is also a bit of a funny one on a hijet funnily enough! There is a pipe in the block next to the thermostat housing arrowed here which bypasses the thermostat:-



This sucks water from the heater matrix, into the water pump, through the block and back out the "top hose" which has the rad cap in it under the passenger seat.

The feed to the heater matrix comes from the "top hose" (hot water outlet from the cylinder head), it goes down under the footwell, and back up, through the heat selector valve and into the heater matrix.

So if we get air in the radiator, it probably ends up in the heater matrix via the radiator necks side vent thing via the cap. Or if we get air in the top hose it will end up in the heater matrix. - It really can't win.

Lots of semi useful and useless information there! But anyway, to conclude my rambles:-

If the rad was blocked up with only a few veins/cores working, when the engine generates alot of heat, the radiator will not be able to get rid of it. Flow will be restricted too so this hot water will get hotter quicker and the process will spiral out of control. Through out this boil up process, the majority of the gas/steam will end up in the heater matrix, air locking it out, thus creating even less of a flow path for the water movement generated by the pump - only increasing the boil up speed and process.

(p.s. this post has taken me over an hour to put together)
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:11 am

So after half a block of Brie and not many crackers I came up with this little plan I have to share before I hit the sack:-

(shortly before oldie and logi wake up to enjoy sunday!)

The only sure fire way to know your getting the heater matrix air free is to pull the pipe off the radiator necks side vent under the grill, block off the side vent, and put something into the heater matrix vent pipe which can easily be removed or opened.

Then give it a run to get the temp up and the water pumped round and any air pockets shifted to the heater matrix, then top up the system by a pressurised feed like a hose pipe to the bleed bung/T under the drivers seat. With the system under pressure, you can open the heater matrix vent bung, and the radiator cap, and top hose radiator cap - all one by one. You can slide the heater control from hot to cold which will alter the flow direction of the water.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:42 am

And bugger me, if you end up lucky enough to own an LPG hijet, the vaporiser is another big fat bypass round the radiator, reducing the cooling effectiveness due to reduced coolant flow through the radiator.

So as long as the system is water tight, I wonder if you bleed them up really well, then drive them with the heaters on hot on full fan speed, if you can increase the time before the boil up as long as you don't work the engine too hard!

And one of my next little investigation jobs has to be to rip open the knackard radiator from ernie the over heating pickup, which had been rammed full of rad weld. This could teach us all a lesson about rad weld in hijets....

Plus you say "how can it over heat when it doesn't have a thermostat in it" good point, now from when I was a teenager I took the thermostat out of a couple of cars which had problems for one reason or another - anyway, I found that I could not even get the temp gauge to move off the bottom with these cars, never any heat through the vents - nothing. That's because the water would flow too fast and with air going through the radiator it would displace the heat too quick to get to temperature.

Now as you say you get heat with no thermostat, that says to me you must definitely have something restricting coolant flow. Maybe a thermostat! Or maybe shit in the radiator.

And there is more to this too:-

The standard issue sprung rad is not just a pressure release cap, it has a little one way return valve in the centre (I've just taken one apart here at my computer desk). This little valve is there to let the coolant get sucked back in from the header tank on cool down etc. Now the water ways are tiny in it, the one I took apart was the knackard one from the over heating red lpg van which had been given the rad weld treatment at some point. The one way valve is all gummed up to the point where it will not even let me pull air through it let alone coolant. So any cap that has been contaminated with any rad weld may be untrustworthy. After washing this one way valve bit of the cap out in boiling hot water and blowing/sucking though it I can just about make it flow again, so you won't recover a cap from the rad weld damage.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:17 am

Wow, HJ did tht cheese have speed in it?!

So, I can get the van to temp on tick over if I shut off the heater matrix, takes about 15 mins before fan kicks in, sticks at just over half temp, stayed like that for 45 mins with fan kicking in, turning the heat on does not cool it down any but it doesn't seem to over heat at tick over, no water pushed into expansion tank, providing I've not already driven it anywhere. All this with apparently no thermostat in. Will check water level again when it's cooled

Bad flow through the rad does make a bit of sense, looking at the direction of flow it is the pipes on exiting the rad that go cool when it's overheating, so maybe water not circulating through quick enough

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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by d1noh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:09 pm

Is there any antifreeze in the system? it raises the boiling point of water
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:34 pm

d1noh wrote:Is there any antifreeze in the system? it raises the boiling point of water

Not at the moment no, having to bleed it so often it's all flushed out! Am bearing that in mind tho, still don't think it should get so hot with no thermostat just ticking over.
it still seems to be gaining air from somewhere, have ordered some QH rad caps as one of mine is a cheep nasty one and not sure if it's sealing properly, will be block testing again tommorow and refilling system with coolant, also checking the temp of rad all over as its heating up to see if there are any cool spots, then depending on results of that taking the plunge and getting a new rad to see if it helps, there was a hell of a lot of sludge when I flushed it the first time although the water in the system is now very clean! Thankfully cos I keep having to siphon the water out of the expansion tank with a hose, don't fancy doing that when there's coolant in it!
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:58 pm

I've been out there playing with the red gas jet this morning. I came up with this last night, if you attach the hose pipe to here:-



Then you keep the tap open so you have mains water pressure charging the system, now go around, open the caps one at a time, then you pull out the bung (i've used a 1/2 extension as you can see in the picture). Let loads of water flow through all the caps and bung one at a time.

Then you pull off the little pipe on the top of the radiator, let loads of water come out of there too, clearing any air blockages.

The you close up the heater matrix by going to the cold setting - repeat the above process.

Then clamp up the LPG vapouriser water return like this:-



Now open up the heater matrix, and do all the bleeding as above all over again - all the caps, the bung, and the little radiator top pipe.

Now the hard bit! Try and remove the bung, and disconnect the hose pipe without any air ingress or water loss, and reconnect them up.

In theory you should have a system with ZERO potential air locks in it - "in theory" - maybe. Laughing

So I then run the van till its hot, firstly I found my heaters were hotter than ever before. Then I thought hell, I'll make it proper hot by putting some carpet over the radiator. Then I drew a line on the header tank bottle to mark off the top water lever when hot, so now I wait for it to cool back down to see what has happened, will it draw the water back? Will it have an air lock?

But then I thought I'll do a bit more investigation into the hijet radiator setup:-



See the rad weld scum, and the divider on the bottom cap.



Here is a clogged vein/core pipe, there were many more, plus a fair few were furred up. And this radiator got flushed out while on the pickup while I was trying to get it to run right before stripping it down.

Dinoh has a solid point there, I am just using water for my experiments at the moment, under tick over etc you should be within the 100 degree limit, but water touching the cylinder liners and cylinder head under load conditions will be exposed to very high temperatures. With a proper antifreeze mix, if the system keeps pressure, you can get the fluid up to 140 degrees without it bubbling/boiling/vaporizing.

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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by waz on Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:28 pm

I take my hat of to you HJ, you are doing all the work and don't mind sharing your results/ findings.

Waz
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:19 pm

Thanks for that! It's not a one way street though Waz, I get to read about other peoples experiences and symptoms which helps me play detective, and where would the world be without sharing information? I've had info from this site which has really helped me out, all the manuals that leopard_pagan originally shared etc.

I realise nowadays the vast majority of the world is driven my money and protectionism, but there is no future in that mentality.

I gained the vast majority of my knowledge of modern car electronics/EFI systems from the internet, a site called http://www.pgmfi.org which is an open community of people who all reverse engineered the honda ECU's. Now here's the sorry twist.... 10 years down the line, the sites owner got sue'd by a company called hondata who make tuning ecu's - this company used all the research from the open community to develop their products in the first place then turned round and sued the communities owner for one reason or another. This turned into a long expensive legal battle. Now the site doesn't even exsist, hondata won. The domain is blocked forever. Good v's Bad isn't like a Hollywood film in real life.

Yet I hang on to the faith, do a good deed and what goes round will come around! -now if anyone can find me a rear bumper or two, and a pair of rear light clusters I'd very much appreciated it.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by waz on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:28 pm

< gained the vast majority of my knowledge of modern car electronics/EFI systems from the internet, a site called http://www.pgmfi.org which is an open community of people who all reverse engineered the honda ECU's. Now here's the sorry twist.... 10 years down the line, the sites owner got sue'd by a company called hondata who make tuning ecu's - this company used all the research from the open community to develop their products in the first place then turned round and sued the communities owner for one reason or another. This turned into a long expensive legal battle. Now the site doesn't even exsist, hondata won. The domain is blocked forever. Good v's Bad isn't like a Hollywood film in real life.>

There is always some greedy bastards out to profit from the knowledge of other.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:39 pm

waz wrote:I take my hat of to you HJ, you are doing all the work and don't mind sharing your results/ findings.

Waz

yeah hes doin a good job!, its nearly as good as having a spare hijet to play with, loving all the pics its helping me loads, ive made my own version of a rat bag to do a block test, hopefully it will work, ill post t he pics tomorrow eve Very Happy
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:07 pm

This is getting beyond a joke now,

drove it round and round trying to get a bit of heat going, had temp switch on cold, left it running when I got it to the garage, could only get it to 1/8 on temp gauge, so no purging of water into expansion tank, no bubbling, plenty of heat in cab.so no gasses to test with block tester.

Used the laser temp tester thing, rad at 90deg top, bottom left at 60deg bottom right at 40deg, so clearly an issue here, phoned around trying to get prices on new rad, they are obsolete, you can't get them new, can get mine re cored for £120+vat or have a new one made for £175+vat

Did a pressure test on cooling system dry, at first a very very slow drop by about 1-2psi pumped it up to 13 again, stayed stable.

Put a new QH rad cap on expansion pipe, seems to fit more securely.

Drove home with temp switch on hot, it got to 1/2 temp, let it idle for a bit, purges water into expansion tank, starts bubbling very slowly (a pea sized bubble every 2-3 seconds, not even enough to inflate the little bag to test it!) fan kicks in temp keeps going up, no hot air in cab

This is just ridiculous even if I pay out for a re core or custom made rad (I do believe the rad is shot) I don't see how that's gonna fix the whole problem, or is it?



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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by bushwhacker on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:28 pm

I don't believe the obsolete business one bit. Here are two:

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Daihatsu_Hijet_1.3_2001/p/car-parts/car-cooling-parts-and-car-heating/cooling/car-radiator/?203560010&1&df264aa7104b76defad8fc777aa69aedec5d31bb&000261

A bit expensive but the cheaper one may be better if the write up is to be believed. The only problem is they are different sizes so you may need to check how much space you have available but mainly specify the correct VIN or registration number in order to get the right one.

Surprisingly, of course, the cheaper one is out of stock.


Last edited by bushwhacker on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:30 pm


Yeah, lots said yes, then phoned back and said actually no, they can't get them, and at that price I'd be better off getting a custom made!

Euro car parts were one of the ones that said they can't get them


Last edited by daisydon on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added a bit!)
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:34 pm

And that link is for a rad on a 2001, i believe it's got pipes in different places?
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by bushwhacker on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:39 pm

I have no idea what year your vehicle is although I believe it to be a 1.3. They should all be the same for that engine size. To be absolutely sure try with your own year.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:40 pm

bushwhacker wrote:I have no idea what year your vehicle is although I believe it to be a 1.3. They should all be the same for that engine size. To be absolutely sure try with your own year.

Mines 1999, doesn't come up, just hoses and fluids
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by elfin girl on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:07 pm

So, I'm now thinking of taking the rad off and trying to flush harpic limescale remover through it, surely I can't make it worse by doing that! If I can get it off today then I could leave it soaking overnight
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

Post by HighlyJetted on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:41 pm

I bought a new hijet last night and I had it delivered this morning.

I've bought it to brake for parts.

It has an almost new radiator on it, and I have another one the looks about 5 years old in the garage.

I want the almost new one for my red LPG van, but I can do you the 5 year old one, but I need to pressure test it and inspect it before I make big promises.

I'll be back to let you know by tomorrow night (tuesday) although it might be close to midnight or beyond.
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Re: mechanics that are good with hi jets? (the answer to this is.... if you want a job done properly, do it yourself!)

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